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Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-)

The F-22
h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I

The Rafale :
h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news

Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow .

Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       7/21/2009 7:34:41 PM
Thank you Sinoflex :-)
Arty , thank you again too .
 
Cheers .
 
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ArtyEngineer    For BW - Picture Insertion   7/21/2009 7:53:07 PM
Step 1 - Hit reply and you will be presented with the picture below.  The Arrow is pointing at the "Icon" used to insert pictures: 
 
 
Step 2 - By clicking it the following 'Box" appears:
 
 
The important bit here is highlighted, teh URL.  Any picture on the web, simply get teh url and copy past in here.  However many sites dont like you doing this and some even block it, so its much better to grab the pic and host it on a picture hosting site.  I personally use 'Photobucket"
 
So Step 3 - Get "Direct link from teh photo hosting site, see below:
 
 
Here we can see the picture I used for step 1 hosted on Photobucket and the direct link highlighted.
 
Step 4 - Is too past that into teh URL line shown previously.  See below:
 
 
Having done this we can see teh picture we desire to post displayed in the box above and to the right.  HOWEVER!!!! And this is very important!!!!!  Look at teh width, this is how many pixels wide you pic is going to be and this is the root cause of threads where you have to scroll half a mile to the right to see what people have written as some muppet posted a massive high res pic and didnt adjust this before inserting.
 
I personally usually use 400 - 600.
 
Step 5- adjust to desired "Sensible" size and hit insert.
 
 
Step 6 - This is not essential, hover I am anal about things like this ;) I then center the pic withing the post using the "Icon" pointed out below:
 
 
Hope this helps ;)
 
Regards
 
Arty
 
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Bluewings12       7/21/2009 7:57:57 PM
Absolutly perfect Arty :-) I got it .
Thank you very much for your work , really .
 
Cheers .
 
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ArtyEngineer    Goddamit Sino!!!!   7/21/2009 7:57:57 PM
Talk about stealing my thunder ;)  Oh well!!!!!
 
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Bluewings12       7/21/2009 8:13:44 PM
Just for you to put a face on the name (first and last time) , your servitor and his Mum :
(She 's 72 and I am 46 and family is a big thing)
 
 
 
You can still call me a "teenager fanboy" but the first who calls me "Grand-Pa" , I kill him (We were soldiers)
 
Cheers .
 
 
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sinoflex    Arty Rules!   7/21/2009 8:18:56 PM
What I offered was a mere appetizer whereas you offered a 3 course meal. Your last bit about constraining image dimensions was an especially important point.  Good work!  
 
Talk about stealing my thunder ;)  Oh well!!!!!

 
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Bluewings12       7/21/2009 8:56:01 PM
The two "holes" are air intakes taking parts in the cooling engine process .
 
The purpose is threefold : cooling the engines , hiding the engines IR signature with a constant flow of cold air circulating in between the engines and the airframe and diluting the hot gases in the exhausts .
 
It makes sense if you want to build a fighter capable to fly fast and low . The IR signature management must be low when the fighter has to evade portable IR SAMs . If the fighter 's belly is "cold" , it helps .
Another nice trick from Dassault .
 
Cheers .
 
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sinoflex       7/21/2009 9:54:51 PM
 
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Herald12345    Nice.   7/21/2009 10:04:05 PM


 
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gf0012-aust    Rafale ducts   7/21/2009 10:36:55 PM
a question for the aviation engineers....

Why aren't the ducts NACA shaped?? There seems to be no visible means (front or on profile) for the air to be herded into the
chamber 

If no NACA ducts why no shock ramp to facilitate the same?

If the air is just getting boxed and channeled then it's entry point would seem to not provide any opportunity for it to be compressed, swirled and hence cool down effectively whatever its supposed to be doing.

Seems relevant to me as its pretty obvious that there is a bit of a hot spot where the air converges....  The photos are a bit of a giveaway... 
 
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sinoflex    Dorsal or Ventral View?   7/22/2009 12:38:27 AM
Out of curiosity, does this look like a view of the underside or the topside of the aircraft?
 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       7/22/2009 1:46:58 AM
ventral
 
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Herald12345    Agreed.   7/22/2009 2:09:04 AM
The size and location of the vents as FOD foils may be why the Dassault engineers were not able to properly duct them. 
 
Herald
 
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StevoJH       7/22/2009 3:13:50 AM
Bluewings,
 
Why don't you just agree that the Rafale, Typhoon and Super Hornet are all fairly closely matched in capabilities and will become even more closely matched once Typhoon and Rafale receive AESA radar's.
 
The problem i see with Rafale (and with F22 actually) is that with the low numbers produced (and the low production rate in the case of Rafale [20 years for 300 or so airframes]) will lead to less money being available for upgrades to the fleet then there is for the Eurofighter, Super Hornet and F35 which have been ordered in much larger numbers, resulting in money from more sources being available to pay for upgrades to the airframes.
 
How will Typhoon and Rafale compare in 15 years? We don't know, but i'm guessing that typhoon will be better since with big orders from the UK, Germany and Saudi Arabia, more money should be available for upgrades.
 
Have a fun debate guys.
 
Stephen
 
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Bluewings12       7/22/2009 2:11:28 PM
Sino :
""Out of curiosity, does this look like a view of the underside or the topside of the aircraft?""
gf :
""ventral""
 
Wrong . This known picture shows the topside of an early Rafale F1 . The hot spot was in fact the air vent from the MPDU cooling system situated aft left behind the cockpit frame ... Since , Dassault moved it .
 
Stevo :
""Why don't you just agree that the Rafale, Typhoon and Super Hornet are all fairly closely matched in capabilities and will become even more closely matched once Typhoon and Rafale receive AESA radar's.""
 
I agree with that , no problem . They are indeed of very high quality , but it also depends on the mission . Typhoon and Rafale are better tailored for A2A than the SH , but the SH and the Rafale are better tailored for A2G than the Typhoon (as it stands) . Out of the three , I go for the French Fighter .
 
""The problem i see with Rafale (and with F22 actually) is that with the low numbers produced (and the low production rate in the case of Rafale [20 years for 300 or so airframes]) will lead to less money being available for upgrades to the fleet then there is for the Eurofighter, Super Hornet and F35 which have been ordered in much larger numbers, resulting in money from more sources being available to pay for upgrades to the airframes.
How will Typhoon and Rafale compare in 15 years? We don't know, but i'm guessing that typhoon will be better since with big orders from the UK, Germany and Saudi Arabia, more money should be available for upgrades.""
 
This is possible , time will tell . On the other hand , Dassault and its Partners have always been upgrading the FAF and MN aircrafts (as well as the export versions) . The M2000 and the Super-Etendard are living exemples . In beween the M2000-C , the -5F anf the -9MkII , there is one and a half generation .
 
Cheers .
 
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