This is the single most unbelievable thread I've seen on SP in a long time. I mean seriously, the idea that you can judge and compare platform performance during DIFFERENT scripted maneuvers and use that as some measure of which one is better in a dogfight is laughable. Seriously, THIS DOES NOT NEED TO BE A 100+ post correction session. From this point forward we should boycott this subject as it is an utter and complete waste of time. There is no way BW is being serious. If so then it's even more of an exercise in futility.

-DA 

BW you need to move away from the *air show* videos and stop drinking while you post. You are showing yourself to be a complete fool. Do you know what an *air show* is? It is a show conducted by various different aircraft *purely* for spectators *entertainement*. It has NEVER been a  show of the maximun capabilitys of those a/c. Some nations like France and Russia try and use them more then others, such as the USA, in order to try and say looky at what we can do and the others can't. But the real powers to be actually know how to act like they been there before and feel no need to prove anything.

 

If you had any knowledge whatsoever of how airplanes really perform you'd just shut up and go away. I have personally saw the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds over the years perform. We also had a squadron of FANG F16's and F15's based at the civialian airport I worked at and I saw on a daily bases THOSE a/c come back from the warning areas, enter the overhead and then the *break* and they routinely turned circles around what I saw at any air SHOW. And I can promise you that what I saw sure as hell was NOT all they had either!! You have shown beyond any doubt your complete amateur status when it comes to military aircraft. You are one of those internet fan boys that actually thinks an airshow is a demonstration of the maximum capabilitys of an a/c. You say you are 46 I think it is, but yet you still don't know that an air show is nothing more then a performance for entertainment sake only!! lol

 

For the Americans it is NOT a sales pitch like it may be for the French and Russians. We know what we got and SO do all the rest of the people that count. You know, the ones that stroke the checks? Yea I know France hasn't met many of those types but surely you are aware that THEY are the ones that count and do exist. Not some clowns at a public *SHOW*. lol
You remind me of some team playing a football game and loseing 49-0 and with a minute to go you score a touchdown and then dance around in the endzone for 5 mins while the other team is standing over on their side of the field laughing at you make a spectacle of yourself acting like you never been in the endzone before!! lol

 

Have a nice amateur fantasy life BW,

 

Beazz

Does strategypage ever ban trolls?

 

I am not generally one to call for banning, but lets be honest about bluewings.  He is obviously an idiot, but it is not sufficient to say he is just an idiot.

 

He is in every thread about every aircraft lying about his favorite airplane and generally screwing up the message board.

 

He knows better.  He knows by this point that trying to compare these jets based on their low/slow handling is idiotic and that airshow routines in general are not useful as a means of estimating combat performance.

 

This board might as well be named "Stupid crap some truck driver made up about the Rafale, and efforts to educate a truck driver who can't/won't learn."

Can anybody tell me why you are that much freaking out about BWs posts ? I am certainly not the "aircraft expert" you guys obviously are, but what your problem - just a guy coming along and saying that in his opinion the Rafale has a comparable or maybe better maneuverability than the F22 ? I rad your posts and in almost every second post there are words like "Troll", "Liar", "Idiot" ... are these your arguments ? hey, if you "know what you ve got" - just stay relaxed ...

I mean from all I have heard (a little bit from primary sources - but most of it read from secondary sources -e.g. DERA studies -, I have to admit - so I really do not know much about it), there seems to be no question about the F22 being the most capable fighter aircraft currently, because this aircraft seems to be excellent in almost every aspect ranging from maneuerability, to stealth, supercruise up to its sensory and computational capabilities (which is obviously reflected in the costs of the bird). However this does not mean that something like the Rafale or the Typhoon is not comparable to the F22 in one or two of these aspects, although being inferior in all the others.

 

You have been posting a lot about the fact that the Rafale cannot be sold. I think that so far the decision to go for the Rafale was from an economic point of view a desaster. As far as I can remember the political tactics initially was to just create facts (i.e. a real aircraft) while the Eurofighter countries were still debating about the Eurofighter project and rewriting the specs and so maybe get some of them to divert from the Eurofighter project and buy a French product. Well, this has not turned out to work well - so, yes, the Rafale was not a desaster from a financial perspective. However, I also don't find it very appealing if you produce a superior aircraft, which is however so expensive that you can't afford to buy a large enough number to further guarantee your air superiority. Is this success ? I don't know. 

 

 

 

As has already been explained, the reason BW receives so much disdain and insults is not because he posts something about his favorite airplane, and it's not because he posts something about his favorite national aircraft industry.  It's because he posts so much crap for years and years about his favorite airplane and national aircraft industry, crap that has been fact-corrected in great detail over and over, and yet he will turn right around and post the same crap again and again.  He even has admitted what is obvious to any unbiased observer, that is that he intentionally is skewing what he writes in order to cast his favorite subject matter in the best light he can.  To a  lot of us, probably especially military and engineers in particular, that is dishonorable behavior--and when it comes to discussing weapon systems we can abide honest attempts to share and learn, we have only scorn and contempt for dishonorable attempts to advance a personal agenda rather than just the truth.  If the subject is politics, I for one would have a different standard and could accept that everyone posting anything is to some extent advancing his personal agenda--I know I certainly do.  But not aircraft capabilities.

 

BW may go too far to write unproven assertions concerning the Rafale, but when you compare to the denial and contempt of some US posters concerning our engineering capabilities and Rafale roadmap, I would think is less biased than a lot of its ennemy here.

A lot of US posters consider as granted some capabilites of F35 because somebody has published something, while F35 is not even operational and deny French ability to implement same capabilities (even we do not publish so much in advance like USA).

BTW, I consider F22 by far the best fighter available.Maybe Rafale can do better concerning some flight manoeuvers in WVR, while F22 could do better on other flight manoeuvers but overall F22 is a class above Rafale.

But it doen't mean Rafale is a sitting duck as a fighter.

 

"BW may go too far to write unproven assertions concerning the Rafale"

"A lot of US posters consider as granted some capabilites of F35 because somebody has published something, while F35 is not even operational and deny French ability to implement same capabilities (even we do not publish so much in advance like USA)."