2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale

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Beryoza 7/12/2009 12:01:51 AM

Assuming it works as advertised, that would depend on the aggressor (ie F-35) playing along. It could be very easily countered by third party targeting (ie where the Sparkies are operating in hunter/killer flights, with the shooters being totally EM silent and the painters being much further away).

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Bluewings12 7/12/2009 12:05:52 AM

The Rafales could do exactly the same . Back to square one ;-)

Cheers .

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Bluewings12 7/12/2009 12:10:01 AM

I enjoy very much talking with you Beryoza , I wish that everybody could use your tone and politeness :-)

Cheers .

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Bluewings12 7/12/2009 12:53:22 AM

Here are some beautiful pictures showing some of the new configurations :

6 GBUs , 4 Micas , 2 tanks and a mock-up Damoclès pod :

h*tp://img170.imageshack.us/img170/1893/gbu12.jpg

One GBU-24 , 4 Micas , 2 tanks and the REAL Damoclès pod :

h*tp://img44.imageshack.us/img44/1588/gbu24.jpg

Reco NG pod + 6 Micas :

h*tp://img440.imageshack.us/img440/767/recce.jpg

During Meteor trials :

h*tp://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5186/meteorw.jpg

Rafale refuelling another Rafale before to fly over A-Stan :

h*tp://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1504/ravito.jpg

Cheers .

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Bluewings12 7/12/2009 1:21:13 AM

I don 't want to start a flame war (far from it) but I hope that posters like Herald (who hates and bash Thalès) , Rufus , Warpig , etc , will acknowledge the new capabilities of the Rafale F3 and stop talking non-sense .

I also backed-up what I said with official links which is not what they are usually doing .

Cheers .

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Beryoza 7/12/2009 1:33:15 AM

The difference is that the F-35 is in a much better position to fight the "stealthy" fight...it has an AESA radar (permitting, amongst other things, LPI operation), it has a very much lower frontal RCS (making it very much less vulnerable to third party targeting, amongst other things), and it only has to use its ECM selectively. The Rafale is much more limited in this regard.

Such third party targeting and proper EMCON are a great way to fight against other fourth generation aircraft, but stealthy targets are much more challenging. Incidentally, the Rafale's reliance on MICA places it at a range disadvantage against other Western (AMRAAM-using) or Russian (R-27ER/T/A, R-77) fighters in such a fight.

I'm not dismissing the Rafale as a threat, it's deadly if used correctly, but it needs to adopt either the AMRAAM or Meteor (or both) in order to be truly competitive in the BVR arena.

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Seagull 7/12/2009 3:26:32 AM

And both the AESA and Meteor is offered for exportation.

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Herald12345 Fantasy life. 7/12/2009 3:50:34 AM

Reactive :

""If anyone does NOT think bluewings is an idiot please state the reasons why below.""

I don 't think BW is an idiot :-)

Reasons : he has 5 diplomas , one being a Bac pro , he was a Sergeant Chef in the French Air Force Commandos and went twice in the sand box and never get one of his man wounded . He has been a very successful battle/drill scenario designer for a US military software company , his IQ is 145 .

**********************

I said earlier to Seagull that I was looking into the latest incarnation of SPECTRA . I am trying to dig stuff on the latest war modes but I can only get few little pieces here and there so far , nothing revolutionary ... Until I can get a decent a clear picture , I will not post anything about it .

Nevertheless , I can say that SPECTRA has indeed improved . We know that the ECM suite is using interferometry to detect , pinpoint and track adverse EM emissions with great accuracy . This capability (so far) did not allow the aircraft to fire passively at a target because it only worked in 2D , x and y axis . The "z" axis (3D) was provided by the LRF but only up to the LRF range (35km) .

It seems that SPECTRA is now capable to work in 3D thus providing a passive firing solution at longer range (note the conditional) . At the Le Bourget Airshow , Thalès released a new video showing their gizmos onboard the Rafale :

h*tp://vimeo.com/5108704?hd=1

Use full screen and pause at 00:51, then read :

"contributing to the tactical situation awareness : 3D localization allowing the Rafale to fire missiles thanks to SPECTRA informations"

This fact alone (if true) totally changes the way the FAF and MN Rafales are going to fight BVR . I can feel the "Wow" factor :-)

How Thalès is doing the trick is unknown to me but my guess is threefold :

-1) Spectra AESA twin antennas have improved

-2) Algorythms and software coding have improved

-3) Computing power (number crushing) has improved (The Rafale F2 already had 50 time more computing power than the F-22) .

I 'll post some more later ...

Cheers .

Anybody seriously believe the IQ of 145? What about the rest of it?

Come on, this is the guy who doesn't know what a diverter cell, or a snap off is, or a droop sensor when he sees one.

Note my specific comments-especially you, Bery, as you are something of an authentic expert..

Herald

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Seagull 7/12/2009 4:48:09 AM

Knowledge in a specific area has nothing to do with IQ.

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Beryoza 7/12/2009 5:24:04 AM

"a snap off "

In the ADF that term refers to something very specific...and not immediately applicable on this board

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Beryoza 7/12/2009 5:55:55 AM

And both the AESA and Meteor is offered for exportation.

There is no doubt that with a powerful new AESA, Meteor, and improved engines, the Rafale will, like the Typhoon, be a very formidable fighter. It will still be inferior to fifth generation aircraft, but to any other contenders it will be a serious threat.

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gf0012-aust 7/12/2009 6:19:00 AM

Knowledge in a specific area has nothing to do with IQ.

and adults don't even consider raising the issue of their IQ in a public forum . people either demonstrate competency by their capacity to comprehend and articulate the issue - and demonstrate that they understand well known concepts - or they're pretenders

appealing to authority by claiming a high IQ is a desperate appeal to cement credibility.

It's lame

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Seagull 7/12/2009 7:58:13 AM

The last Reactive's message is "lame", because it was 100% made of personnal attack, and had no reason to be on the board.

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Reactive 7/12/2009 12:36:44 PM

The last Reactive's message is "lame", because it was 100% made of personnal attack, and had no reason to be on the board.

I saw Herald posting "i don't think BW is an idiot" and for a moment had a minor cardiac arrest, however, I then noticed he was quoting BW himself, who is, thus far, the only person here who is of the firm opinion that he is not a buffoon.

It was just that if there was any doubt left in the minds of the poor readers out there who have to trawl through his fantasies in order to get to people who know what they are talking about, it gave them some form of data as to the level of respect people have for his posts.

And he's made entire threads in order to belittle someone.. so apologies to have an "unconstructive" posting, but consider how many constructive postings there have been, and how much they have effected a change in his posting behaviour.

But, for the record, he isn't an idiot, in his own opinion, which should give you some sort of insight here.

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Herald12345 Goes to credibility. 7/13/2009 4:35:08 AM

Knowledge in a specific area has nothing to do with IQ.

BW claimed to be a tank expert.a software code trouble shooter (beta tester?) and claims an IQ of 145. Draw your own conclusions; but I aimed at something very specific that has nothing to do with intelligence or knowledge, it has to do with honesty.

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