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Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-) The F-22 h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I The Rafale : h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow . Cheers .
 
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FJV    Nudge, nudge   8/12/2009 3:43:40 PM
I would say that "base fuse location" is not exactly the terminology I would use.
 
There is also a little deception in the words "base fuse location" as it implies something and encourages and assumption which is incorrect.
 
However the terminology I would use would give the thing away.
 
As for Thales fuses I found this:
 
Paveway 4 should have been in service last year, but the Thales Missile Electronics-developed all-electronic fuse suffered significant performance shortfalls during capability trials at China Lake in April 2007.

That led to a major redesign of the fuse along with changes to a large number of components, according to Phil Jones, the managing director of Thales Missile Electronics.

The cooperation between the MoD, Raytheon and Thales to overcome the problems in such a short time was a "remarkable achievement," Holdsworth said.

 
 

 
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Blue Apple       8/13/2009 3:08:24 AM
It seems that he's talking about how there is a French fuse in the base of that bomb body (or at least is projected to be used as of the date of that briefing), and how that French fuse is (or will be) used  in GP, LGB (including Paveway II and Enhanced Paveway II from Raytheon), JDAM, and AASM bombs--according to pp. 14-17 of that briefing.
 
Hem, that's a good summary of my position. Except that the FBM 21 is now in service and replaces the mix of French Matra 905 and FEU 80, US FMU-139 and FMU-143.
 
His position has been the the French use the FMU-152 and FMU-159 fuzes, demonstrably false there is no trace of any export contract and neither references are in the general DGA component index (you'll notice that both FMU-139 & FMU-143 are there with the FBM21 in the "Fusées - Détonateurs categories).
 
He also seems to believe that page 15 of the pdf somehow indicates that this cannot be the case. But he won't tell us why.
 
As for Thales fuses I found this
 
Thales TME is a UK company, it has nothing to do with the Thales TDA (now Junghans T2M) designed FBM 21.
 
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Herald12345    FJV, don't give it away, just yet.   8/13/2009 7:47:48 AM

I would say that "base fuse location" is not exactly the terminology I would use.

 

There is also a little deception in the words "base fuse location" as it implies something and encourages and assumption which is incorrect.


 

However the terminology I would use would give the thing away.

 

As for Thales fuses I found this:


 



Paveway 4 should have been in service last year, but the Thales Missile Electronics-developed all-electronic fuse suffered significant performance shortfalls during capability trials at China Lake in April 2007.


That led to a major redesign of the fuse along with changes to a large number of components, according to Phil Jones, the managing director of Thales Missile Electronics.


The cooperation between the MoD, Raytheon and Thales to overcome the problems in such a short time was a "remarkable achievement," Holdsworth said.


 



 




Herald
 
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FJV    The guy really seems to have no clue   8/13/2009 1:00:03 PM
But then my guess is that most posters including this one are not really here to discuss technology.
 
They want to discuss the "cool" stuff the saw on TV. The unfortunate fact being that television programs give you the idea you understand something when in reality you don't. So you end up with discussions about technology which can only exist in fiction where the opposing force speaks Klingon.

I advise anyone pissed off by the last remark to try and get a computer working again by merely uttering the words "Computer reroute power supply" to get the point.
 
 
 
 
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warpig       8/13/2009 2:27:36 PM

But then my guess is that most posters including this one are not really here to discuss technology.

 

They want to discuss the "cool" stuff the saw on TV. The unfortunate fact being that television programs give you the idea you understand something when in reality you don't. So you end up with discussions about technology which can only exist in fiction where the opposing force speaks Klingon.





I advise anyone pissed off by the last remark to try and get a computer working again by merely uttering the words "Computer reroute power supply" to get the point.


 

 

 


 
Herald is the one who first used the label "base fuse location," and because of that I referred to the fuse being in the base of the bomb body.  BA had nothing to do with that.  If this argument is now going to morph away from the point that it is a French-made fuse in their bombs, and shift the goalposts to being a lame-ass pissing match over which terminology is more correct: "tail" v. "base" v. "bomb" fuse, that would be PATHETIC.
 
The PROOF was presented, the fuse in use by France is made by a French company.  If someone wants to now present additional evidence that the proof isn't really proof after all, and the fuse in question is not the fuse that is used, or that the fuse in question is not really a French design (although that would not suffice to prove wrong what BA said), it would be completely incombant upon THAT person to now present HIS proof.  BA has done all he needs to do.  Saying, "It's in there, look harder," is LAME.  BA has already admitted he does not yet see whatever Herald is referring to.  Either Herald actually explains what he meant, or as far as I'm concerned for one, Herald has FAILED to rebut BA's proof.
 
 
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Reactive    Ho ho ho   8/13/2009 9:00:20 PM
It's actually not that cryptic.
 

 
 
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Herald12345    China Lake.   8/15/2009 11:27:44 AM
The bomb fuse failed to function as designed because it was in the WRONG location. The US fuses are NOW located in the midbody on the casing strong-back. THAT is why I knew that BA was wrong on that contract as of this year, Warpig. The German fuses (not French) won't fit.

Herald
 
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warpig       8/15/2009 5:16:03 PM

The bomb fuse failed to function as designed because it was in the WRONG location. The US fuses are NOW located in the midbody on the casing strong-back. THAT is why I knew that BA was wrong on that contract as of this year, Warpig. The German fuses (not French) won't fit.




Herald



What has that got to do with p.15 of the briefing, or even the overall question of what fuses the French use in their bombs?  Honestly, Herald, sometimes I just can not follow your train of thought.
 
Furthermore, I would bet that the couple other people who sort of chimed in absolutely could not have guessed that this observation regarding some recent test results was what you were referring to in your previous posts.
 
 
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Herald12345    Page 15.   8/16/2009 7:02:28 AM




The bomb fuse failed to function as designed because it was in the WRONG location. The US fuses are NOW located in the midbody on the casing strong-back. THAT is why I knew that BA was wrong on that contract as of this year, Warpig. The German fuses (not French) won't fit.










Herald








What has that got to do with p.15 of the briefing, or even the overall question of what fuses the French use in their bombs?  Honestly, Herald, sometimes I just can not follow your train of thought.

 

Furthermore, I would bet that the couple other people who sort of chimed in absolutely could not have guessed that this observation regarding some recent test results was what you were referring to in your previous posts.

 

1. You would be wrong.
2. The bomb fuse location and architecture..
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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warpig       8/16/2009 11:55:41 AM




The bomb fuse failed to function as designed because it was in the WRONG location. The US fuses are NOW located in the midbody on the casing strong-back. THAT is why I knew that BA was wrong on that contract as of this year, Warpig. The German fuses (not French) won't fit.




What has that got to do with p.15 of the briefing, or even the overall question of what fuses the French use in their bombs?  Honestly, Herald, sometimes I just can not follow your train of thought.

Furthermore, I would bet that the couple other people who sort of chimed in absolutely could not have guessed that this observation regarding some recent test results was what you were referring to in your previous posts.



1. You would be wrong.

2. The bomb fuse location and architecture..


 
 
 
1.  You would be wrong.
2.  Thank you for another interesting briefing.  Which, by the way, had nothing to do with the French fuses under discussion nor in any way refuted what BA said.  If it did, TELL HOW IT DID.  Otherwise, that was just another crytic post.
 
 
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