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Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-) The F-22 h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I The Rafale : h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow . Cheers .
 
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Herald12345       7/29/2009 12:27:32 PM

 

Quote: Lie. Go back and read it again.


  Done time and time again, being in a state of denial doesn't make you an educated person in a field you didn't study and dont start to comprehend the basics of.

Assertion with no fact of proof. Lie.

Quote: It means exactly what I said and the fact that you do not understand it proves you haven't got a clue as to what we discuss.

  It means exactly NOTHING according to aerodynamic languages and known rules, you are an ignorant trying to make up that you know something which visibly is way above your knowlege base.

It means basically that when a delta plan form plane tilts the longer  it can delay drag effect (push drag effect aft)and stall the tighter it can turn at higher speed than a comparable swept wing type. What's so hard to understand?

Quote: Its plain English. Obviously you are trying desperately to establish some credibility by trying to say "tain't so". Problem is that simple denial now that you been caught in multiple errors and lies doesn't substitute for KNOWLEDGE in subject."

  I DONT need to establish credibility, as opposed to YOU, i know my basics and a lot more advanced stuff which you dont even understand to the point of mystaking everything.

Well actually LIAR, you do need to establish credibility since you didn't understand the first thing anyone competent in subject said. 
 
Quote: What is a shock tube? Do you even know the term?

  All you wrote would have a begginer glider pilots weting his pants laughing, you speak aerodynamic like a green mokey speaks Chinese and you know as much about it as the same green monkey could learn about quantum mechanics.
 
Couldn't find it? Try Alexanbder :Lippisch, you fanboy. 

  = Back to newbies school for you Herald

Quote:  And you are still a liar.  Want to play games with a fellow six year old? I have a couple of ignoant oines here who are your speed.

  Insulting people is all you got you can't make your case, you dont have what it takes, so be it, you wont be lookinsg smarter only more of what you really are, an ignorant flamer.

Insulting you is EASY. You are so much the 1%er.


Quote:  Rhetorical trick. Meaningless noise. but to really cut him up by showing the world what a fool he was by destroying him with FACTS

  FACTS ARE: You dont know the subject the slightest and ressort to insults and reverse psychology, you are in great need of people attantion and even more of education.  

Assertion with no facts., Another lie. U didn't crawl in here under an assumed name under a coward's cabal, Pierre.

Quote: Apparently, you missed the rest of it when I correctly lumped you in with the other two. You are part of a class set of fantasists.

  BOY the only fantasist is you, when i speak about the subject to a pilot or an aerodynamicist we understand each other, he would advise you to look at NASA's begginer's topics just as i did.  

What reputable aerodynamacist do you know. NAME ONE.

Quote: The general proof is the three of you  mutually reinforce each other's stupidity and lies  ON CUE..... Frenchmen generally are better educated and more HONEST than you.

  Frenchmen ARE perhaps more educated and honnest than YOU for sure!

 Well toy can't claim that, liar. They disown you as a punk..

 AGAIN you know zilth about the subject, and it SHOWS don't blame other for your own ignorance.


Its written ZILCH. And what is a shock tube again? Still waiting on that one.
 
Quote    Reply

Wingman       7/29/2009 12:30:50 PM
Quote: Its written ZILCH. And what is a shock tube again? Still waiting on that one.
 
  Stop trolling!
 
  Mediocre copy/pasting doesn't make your case, go to your local flying school and borrow the books for learning your basics instead of tryingto pretend that you understand more advaced subject.
 
  You're aflamer nothnig else and certainly NOT someone who knows the slightest about aerodynamics.
 
 Get a grip.
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345       7/29/2009 12:35:48 PM

 

Quote: Lie. Go back and read it again.


  Done time and time again, being in a state of denial doesn't make you an educated person in a field you didn't study and dont start to comprehend the basics of.

Assertion with no fact of proof. Lie.

Quote: It means exactly what I said and the fact that you do not understand it proves you haven't got a clue as to what we discuss.

  It means exactly NOTHING according to aerodynamic languages and known rules, you are an ignorant trying to make up that you know something which visibly is way above your knowlege base.

It means basically that when a delta plan form plane tilts the longer  it can delay drag effect (push drag effect aft)and stall the tighter it can turn at higher speed than a comparable swept wing type. What's so hard to understand?

Quote: Its plain English. Obviously you are trying desperately to establish some credibility by trying to say "tain't so". Problem is that simple denial now that you been caught in multiple errors and lies doesn't substitute for KNOWLEDGE in subject."

  I DONT need to establish credibility, as opposed to YOU, i know my basics and a lot more advanced stuff which you dont even understand to the point of mystaking everything.

Well actually LIAR, you do need to establish credibility since you didn't understand the first thing anyone competent in subject said.when you posted under your other name of Pierre.  
 
Quote: What is a shock tube? Do you even know the term?

  All you wrote would have a begginer glider pilots weting his pants laughing, you speak aerodynamic like a green mokey speaks Chinese and you know as much about it as the same green monkey could learn about quantum mechanics.
 
Couldn't find it? Try Alexanbder :Lippisch, you fanboy

  = Back to newbies school for you Herald

Quote:  And you are still a liar.  Want to play games with a fellow six year old? I have a couple of ignoant oines here who are your speed.

  Insulting people is all you got you can't make your case, you dont have what it takes, so be it, you wont be lookinsg smarter only more of what you really are, an ignorant flamer.

Insulting you is EASY. You are so much the 1%er and so ignorant, it is a farce..


Quote:  Rhetorical trick. Meaningless noise. but to really cut him up by showing the world what a fool he was by destroying him with FACTS

  FACTS ARE: You dont know the subject the slightest and ressort to insults and reverse psychology, you are in great need of people attantion and even more of education.  

Assertion with no facts., Another lie you wrote. For example, I didn't crawl in here under an assumed name under a coward's cabal, Pierre. I didn't see you try to deny it, or even attempt to justify such craven behavior, so you are nailed with it, and BW with you.   

Quote: Apparently, you missed the rest of it when I correctly lumped you in with the other two. You are part of a class set of fantasists.

  BOY the only fantasist is you, when i speak about the subject to a pilot or an aerodynamicist we understand each other, he would advise you to look at NASA's begginer's topics just as i did.  

What reputable aerodynamacist do you know? Boy your fantasy life is really interesting.

Quote: The general proof is the three of you  mutually reinforce each other's stupidity and lies  ON CUE..... Frenchmen generally are better educated and more HONEST than you.

  Frenchmen ARE perhaps more educated and honnest than Pierre for sure! (fixed that for you, liar. Something you write has to be the truth.. H)

 Well you  can't claim that, liar. The French on F-16. Net  already disown you as a punk..


 AGAIN you know zilth about the subject, and it SHOWS don't blame other for your own ignorance.


Its written ZILCH. And what is a shock tube again? Still waiting on that one.
 
Herald
Herald
 
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Herald12345    More foaming at the mouth.   7/29/2009 1:08:27 PM

Listen troll...

 

  I know the subject WAY better than you will ever do, your self-ownage doesn't involve anyone but you, you are noit waiting for my reply you are trying to get me to validate your false claims of knowlege.

 

  In SHORT you got everythnig WRONG and had to ressort to spin, twist, insults and lies.

 

  NOW again i won't satisfy your little game  and can only advise you to go and LEARN.

 

  This subject is way too complex for a newbie to start pretending you are mystaking everythnig and can't even get to grip with the A From ABC, dont try Y Z it's laughable.

 

  Have fun at the flying school.

 

 

 


Still couldn't find out what a simple term like shock tube meant or explain how you fouled up angle of inciodence or expl,ain the half so dozen lies you were caught in?
 
Your ignorance is proved.
 
Tell me...why can the Typhoon OUTTURN the Rafale again? Why can its radar see farther? Why does it have better A2A missiles?
 
Herald
 
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Wingman       7/29/2009 1:52:17 PM
Boy, you really need to find yourself a social network where you can talk about the personal issues which are creeping out at every single of your post.
 
  It is more than obvious that you have a huge anger management problem, translating into pure flaming, while trying to debate on subject you don't comprehend even at their moct basic levels just for the stake of associating with someone you think is better than you; most of the time you are right i rarely saw someone as little aware as you are.
 
  My advise; see a councelor, and eventually start learning at the lowest level, because all you nanaged to do is to so far make a fool of yourself very publicly and get a deserved reputation of flamer and ignorant, your lot, your fault, no one asked you to pretend and self-own your little person.
 
  People like yourself risk self-ownage trying to swallow way more than they can chew and if this lesson isn't enough , i have alot more for you in reserve, but don't go flattering yourself thinking i am the slightest interested; i'd rather talk to a more knowlegeable person than myself ,at least there is interest in the conversation, yours is boring, ennoying and pointles.
 
  We are not interested in your fantasies and inventions, those who learnt  abouyt these things know how to spot an ignorant neewbie just looking at the few first line they write, meaning you dont know the technical terms even in your own language, you dont understand what they mean, you mystake all the elementary basis and even more the complex topics.
 
  There no point for me loosing my time even trying to explain more to you, you dont have the necessary basics to understand and this is where you need to start, the basics...
 
  Now try playing with some one your size for a change.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

usajoe1       7/29/2009 4:40:30 PM
We are not interested in your fantasies and inventions, those who learnt  abouyt these things know how to spot an ignorant neewbie just looking at the few first line they write, meaning you dont know the technical terms even in your own language, you dont understand what they mean, you mystake all the elementary basis and even more the complex topics.
 
No fanboy, we are not interested in your fantasies and inventions. From the fabricated lies you have been posting I can see you have almost zero knowledge of the subject. You are no better than that pathological liar BW's. The funniest part of your post, amuter, was calling Herald a newbie, LOL!
 
Now, I'm going to list this basic facts, and you tell me how this magic French bird that you and that liar BW's are in love with is behind in some very important areas, when compared to its competitors today.
 
1) How come all of the Rafales competitors have more powerful Radars today. SH, Typhoon, SU-30/35/ F-15E?
 
2) How is it that the Rafale is the only fighter from that group that those not have a operational HMS, which gives the others a advantage in WVR combat?
 
3) How is it that the Rafale still does not have a Targeting Pod?
 
4) Why do the SH, Sukhoi, Typhoon and the Eagle, all have more powerful engines?
 
5) How come all of the fighters above have been successful in the export market, and hundreds of them have been produced, while the Rafale has no exports and there is about one Rafale a month being produced?
 
6) Can you tell me why the Rafale cost more than all of the fighters in its class?
 
7) Can you tell me why France is behind bankrupt Russia in the fighter business? Russia is about to roll out the new Sukhoi 5th gen fighter, and the best France can do is a souped-up 4th gen. fighter like the Rafale?
 
 
 
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Rufus       7/29/2009 4:47:21 PM

 
 OUCH!
 
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       7/29/2009 5:12:58 PM
I believe that Herald (first) and Wingman should stop to go personal .
 
My dear Herald , I 've been on SP for longer than you so I know you from your first post or so . To be perfectly honest , I 've learned a good deal with you , when you speak carefully and intelligently about a topic you know . I admit it , simply .
I do like when you use your own mind to explain something you obviously understand , something you can back up with relevant links . I really do and as I said , I 've learned my bit . What I dislike is when you are overwhelmed and try to come back "to the surface to breeze" because you lost the argument (this is not the end of the World) , at that point you are just talking BS and providing all kind of newly invented words (?) , including posting links which are totally irrelevant and off topic , etc . Then , when everything you tried failed , name calling is popping up .
 
Can 't you just say to a Frenchman : "Ooops , sorry , I was wrong . Thx for the update ;-)" ? Is it beyond your strengh ?
I did it many times here on SP and in an honest manner , even a couple of times with you Herald .
You see , during the very hard to read discussion in between you and Wingman , it was easy to see from very early who was the more knowledgeable of the two of you . I can 't be the only poster here to have felt it . You lost ground very rapidly .
Not that I want to defend another Frenchman on a US forum (not my style , remember me telling FS to f**k off) but Wingman knows more than you do , to put it simply . In some areas , I also do ;-)
So , calm down , chill out and be cool . Thank you in advance Herald .
 
Cheers .
 

 
 
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Bluewings12       7/29/2009 5:44:54 PM
I see that Joe is back again with his usual BS . The BS I have responded to many times but the man is coming for more .
Great !
You 're ready Joe ? You 'll better be ;-)
 
""1) How come all of the Rafales competitors have more powerful Radars today. SH, Typhoon, SU-30/35/ F-15E?""
 
First , power is not everything = Rafale 's actual PESA RBE2 sees first the SH , Typhoon and F-15E/K . The SU-30 is still an unknown quantity because the Indians at the latest RedFlag did not use the radar to its best and the Rafales did not get much from it . The SU-35 is also an unkown quantity . What matters Joe , is RCS .
You seem to think that "Power" = better detection . Well , not really you see . I explained few post earlier what the equation Radar vs. RCS was and if you want me to explain to you some more , I will do with pleasure .
Now to respond to your question (the way you want me to) , I will only say that the PESA RBE2 is good enough for what the Rafales are doing right now .
 
""2) How is it that the Rafale is the only fighter from that group that those not have a operational HMS, which gives the others a advantage in WVR combat?""
 
Because the AdA and MN only have that much money . As it stands , we don 't need it .
 
""3) How is it that the Rafale still does not have a Targeting Pod?""
 
For the same reasons . (We 'll have it in few months and the AASM is perfect , thank you)
 
""4) Why do the SH, Sukhoi, Typhoon and the Eagle, all have more powerful engines?""
 
Because (Typhoon put aside) they need to . Without it , they would be brics to fly . Both Rafale and Typhoon have better flight characteristics in every regime than the others .
 
""5) How come all of the fighters above have been successful in the export market, and hundreds of them have been produced, while the Rafale has no exports and there is about one Rafale a month being produced?""
 
Because the Rafale is expensive and the USA and Russia are selling less capable platforms for a big bag of peanuts .
 
""6) Can you tell me why the Rafale cost more than all of the fighters in its class?""
 
Wrong . Typhoon is more expensive and less capable . To respond to your question in the way you want me to , because the Rafale is better than the rest so it cost more .
 
""7) Can you tell me why France is behind bankrupt Russia in the fighter business? Russia is about to roll out the new Sukhoi 5th gen fighter, and the best France can do is a souped-up 4th gen. fighter like the Rafale?""
 
France is not behind Russia TODAY and for the incoming 10 years , you are mistaking . The Best SU-XX in service now is not even in the Russian AF and has plenty of Western avionics , including some from the French ;-)
 
Bye Joe .
 
Rufus :
""OUCH!""
 
Indeed ;-)
 
Cheers .
 

 
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Bluewings12       7/29/2009 6:43:55 PM
I want to go back to some basics  , look at this beautiful picture :
 
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7041/13bh29rglmbghqsyxf0ghy5.jpg" width="640" height="427" /> 
 
Why is the Rafale 's RCS almost 30 times smaller than the F-16 ?
A good eye will spot the differences in no time .
F-16 :
-1) huge central air intake with visible fan blades
-2) Wings angle 
-3) LEX
-4) LEX angle
-5) Belly flaps
-6) Twin tail
-7) Tail angle
-8) No Gold coated canopy
-9) Cone shaped nose
-10) No serrated panels
-11) No RAM coating
and 12th , it hasn 't been built to be discrete .
 
No need to wander why the difference in RCS is rather big .
Regarding the "protuberances" , bad fits and "rivets" , look better :
 
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7452/6563s.jpg" width="640" height="427" />
 
From close on :
 
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/496/6566s.jpg" width="640" height="427" />
 
This is a late Rafale F2 and I really hope that it clears up things . The actual Rafale 's airframe is very smooth .
The early F1s were rather bad and the first to complain at the time were the Marine Nationale Pilots .
 
Cheers .
 
 
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