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Subject: 2009 displays of the F-22 and the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/24/2009 5:03:48 PM
Let 's watch them first :-) The F-22 h*tp://www.air-attack.com/videos/single/cAhL7lJCk4I The Rafale : h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/user/ministeredeladefense/video/x9ma8h_demonstration-du-rafale_news Both aircrafts are pulling nice stuff . Rafale only does it twice faster . Explaination and details to follow . Cheers .
 
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Beazz       7/18/2009 6:40:33 PM

 

 

In the Rafale case, there are up to 18 processing boards in a single MDPU and processing power can be tailored to the aircraft configuration (e.g. the test birds that have been upgraded with the RBE2 AA have two extra MDPU boards).

 

Each board uses a PPC 740 processor running at 200MHz, with a usable processing capacity of ~65 MIPS (MDPU architecture includes a multi-level software stack to hide the hardware caracteristics, making future upgrade easier but eating in the CPU raw power + processes are likely run with a 1+1 redundancy to avoid any interruption in case of a board failure). A Rafale with 18 boards would have a little over 1000 MIPS, or 1.5x the F-22 CPI official processing power. So both systems seem to have similar levels of processing power.


Nonsense.....
 
http://www.f22fighter.com/avionics.htm#2.1 Common Integrated Processor (CIP)
 
F22 easily has twice the power of the Rafail and not even close to maxing out like the Rafail already is. EVERY F22 right now has 2 CIPs in it, not on some test bird somewhere,  and has the space already available for a 3rd if need be. Each CIP has the capacity to run 2000 MIPS if need be, unlike the Rafails 1000 and like I said, it has 2 CIPS in them all right now which means without any upgrades whatsoever they can bump it up to 4000 MIPS if need be!! Then if they wish they can stick the 3rd CIP in it and bump it up to 6000 MIPS if they wish. The Rafail is not even in this league.
 
 
And they say the F22 CIP is equal to TWO Cray supercomputers as well. So please, save the Rafail fanboy crap for France where someone will believe that nonsense.
 
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Bluewings12       7/18/2009 7:00:11 PM
Beazz , do your maths better please .
 
Actually , the F-22 CIP total computing power is 723MIPS (Rafale 's is a bit over 1000MIPS) .
 
You only use 91 modules at 75% of their capabilities .
 
Cheers .
 
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warpig       7/18/2009 7:08:35 PM

Warpig :


""just how much harder it would be to get range data on an airborne emitter using an RWR--particularly if you're doing it by yourself""

 

I know . I always believed that it could be archived through 2 means :

-1) Library databank


-2) Superior knowledge 

 

By library databank , I mean to know everything about a said radar (range , output power , used frequencies , time-shift in between pulses , amplitude , etc ) . Training with various Airforces helps a lot ;-)


Spectra is recording everything and digitizing everything , basically it records passive and active signature management .

Of course , for later purposes . We 've even been accused of doing so at the latest RedFlag and the AdA has been bashed for , which was uncalled for . This is our business and we have the right to do so , if the others can 't , well ...


 

By superior knowledge , I mean exactly what I say . I believe French Engineers to be more more clever in this field than others .

 

Cheers .


 




 
I'm not talking about using the RWR and the whole ESM system to collect and record signals.  Every F-22, EA-18G, and F-35 can/will also be able to do that, and I think the F-18E/F as well.  By no means is that somehow unique to Rafale--just like how all those aircraft can use interferometry to find a bearing to the emitter on the order of 1degree.  "More clever"--yeah, right, take another hit off the bong.  When I said "range data" I meant being able to calculate the range to the emitter, just like we'd been talking about in the last few posts.
 
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Beazz       7/18/2009 7:23:04 PM

Beazz , do your maths better please .

 

Actually , the F-22 CIP total computing power is 723MIPS (Rafale 's is a bit over 1000MIPS) .

 

You only use 91 modules at 75% of their capabilities .


 

Cheers .




Can you read BW????? That ~750 is all that is being used at present because it is all that is needed at the moment since there are TWO CIPs in each F22 now. BUT, if need be they can boost the output for EACH CIP to 2000 MIPS!!! IOW, each CIP is running at about ~750 MIPS. Thats ~750MIPS X 2 BW!! Which equals ~1500 MIPS. If they wish, they can without any trouble boost that to 2000 MIPS per CIP for a total of 2000 MIPS. That would be 4 times your little toy Rafail. That does not even address the fact that space is already there for the 3rd CIP when and if they decide to stick it in for another 2000 MIPS max which would be 6000 MIPS which is 6 times that tonka toy plane you call a war plane.
 
Geeez.. by ya books and send ya to school and this is what we get huh? lol
 
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Bluewings12       7/18/2009 8:28:14 PM
Beazz , the fact is that you are still using 91 modules at 75% of their capabilities . 723MIPS .
 
You 're talking about possible upgrades which is fine by me . Rafale also have a growth potential , maybe not up to an astounding 6000MIPS (!) but a 2000MIPS could be a possibility .
 
Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       7/18/2009 8:40:25 PM
Warpig :
""When I said "range data" I meant being able to calculate the range to the emitter, just like we'd been talking about in the last few posts.""
 
I am still talking about it too , thus my post regarding how to possibly archive it . I have tried to provide some little facts who tend to demonstrate that it is possible (still no HARD fact yet , I admit) but I have excellent reasons to think that it has been done with Spectra , today . This time , it is not a "BW fantaisy" , it is from Thalès and it seems to be supported by some pilot talks .
Keep in mind that I am not saying that the Spectra EW suite might be the only EW suite to range an adverse EM emision , but as far as I know , nobody else but Thalès openly advertised the capability .
It is up to us to decode what they say ...
 
Cheers .
 
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Beazz       7/18/2009 8:55:22 PM

Beazz , the fact is that you are still using 91 modules at 75% of their capabilities . 723MIPS .

 

You 're talking about possible upgrades which is fine by me . Rafale also have a growth potential , maybe not up to an astounding 6000MIPS (!) but a 2000MIPS could be a possibility .

 

Cheers .



What part of this are you not getting? The F22 does NOT need to *upgrade* in order for this increase. It is there now just waiting to be activated if need be. Slap another module in and never skip a beat.  If the F22 *upgrades* it's abilitys that require more power then it is there for the asking. There is no need at present for additional power. But if and when the need arrises it is ready for it. The Rafail is NOT. An UPGRADE would be required in order to give the Rafails computers more power BW.  It is maxed out right now and at only 1/4th the power of the F22 and this is without adding the 3rd CPI that the F22 is also ready, willing and able for right now if it needs it.
 
Stop trying to compare the Rafails lousy computer power with that of the F22. It's pure idiotic and there is simply no reasonable comparison that can be made. Aside from the fact they are both a type of computer. The resemblance stops there BW.
 
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Bluewings12       7/18/2009 9:06:09 PM
Beazz :
""Stop trying to compare the Rafails lousy computer power with that of the F22""
 
First , it is Rafale not rafail . Bashing stupidly a name shows your bias (and probable your young age) .
Since you seem to know far more than I do on the possible computing power of the Rafale 's MDPU and its possible upgrades , you tell me . I am listening .
Of course , allow me to correct you everytime you are talking BS because I will .
You 're a clown .
 
Cheers .
 
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Beazz       7/19/2009 12:30:46 PM

Beazz :


""Stop trying to compare the Rafails lousy computer power with that of the F22""

 

First , it is Rafale not rafail . Bashing stupidly a name shows your bias (and probable your young age) .


Since you seem to know far more than I do on the possible computing power of the Rafale 's MDPU and its possible upgrades , you tell me . I am listening .

Of course , allow me to correct you everytime you are talking BS because I will .


You 're a clown .

 

Cheers .




You're the clown BW. Your own numbers are what I base my info on ref your tonka toy rafail warplane. Show me where the rafail can even add the 2000 MIPS you said are posssible WITHOUT a major UPGRADE to accomidate it. I have shown you where the F22 has 4 times the MIPS of the current ~1000 of the rafail available to it RIGHT NOW and another 2000 available on demand goofball. The F22's may be technically an upgrade as I guess if you pull out a 1gb ram chip from your home pc and stick a 2gb in it that is *technically* an upgrade. But my point is with the F22 that is all that needs to be done with any of this. No changes are going to have to be made to the aircraft to bring the F22 up to 6000MIPS. With the rafail you are stuck at the 1000 and you know it. I have no doubt France could do something to get more, but not by simply pluggin in another chip so to speak and you know it.
 
Now show me where France can even bring the pitiful rafail up to 2000mips as you claim, let alone more????? I'm waiting. Also while you're at it, show me the Bops rating for the rafail. I have tried to find it but all France seems to post are things like..it is 50 times more powerful then X. Then of course its impossible to find out what the rateing of X is also. So help me out. Point me to the source for this info so I can educate myself on all that rafail power??????? Just here to learn BW.
 
Beazz
 
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Bluewings12       7/19/2009 5:33:49 PM
I am sorry Beazz , I can 't answer you because I do not know any aircraft called rafail .
 
Cheers .
 
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