I don't care where it was built but I'm buggered if I can work out how have concluded that those negative kill ratios constitute the type "proving itself in combat".

Pilots and training my friend. When the MiG 21 had well trained pilots it did very well. Don't look at the Arab-Israeli wars as a vindication for the planes negative kill ratio.

Hamilcar , you 've left the pseudo "Herald" behind but the man hasn 't changed .

 

Your hate and personal vendetta against Snecma or Thalès still leads you nowhere .

""The ACTUAL track record of SNECMA combat engines down to the M-88 shows a history of flame-outs, high angle of attack stalls and sudden losses of power at the most dangerous moments for the pilots flying the Dassault junk.""

 

Are you thinking that you talk to ... donkeys ? Everything you said in this sentence are a lot of bollocks .

To start with and because of your poor knowleadge , you left behind perfectly fine engines like (hold on) :

- Atar 08B : Etendard IVM/-P

- Atar 08C : Super Etendard IVM/-P

- Atar 08K-50 : Super Etendard (11 tons dry thrust)

- Atar 09K-10 : Mirage IVA/-P/-R (15 tons dry thrust)

-  Atar 09K-31 : Mirage F1A/B, Mirage F1C

At least but not last , the Mirage III had a 1200km radius range which was correct without being brilliant .

usajoe :

History is.

 

Dassault products with the exception of Etendard technically failed. 

 

Even the Brewster Buffalo was dangerous in the hands of a superb pilot.

Junk is.

Hamilcar :

"Best information response 1."

IF your best response is a thread about an entirely different aircraft then I suggest you give up now.

 

"Response 2. What BVR capability did the Mirage IIIC have? What radar and rockers? You realize that the Matra Magic  530 was a WVR mussile? The Cyrano radar was joke. "

The Matra R530 was a 20km range SARH missile which makes it BVR. The Matra Magic (which incidentally was designated 550, rather than 530 like you incorrectly do here) was a tail chase WRV IR missile.

As for, maneuverability, like most pure deltas in heavy air, it was pig with poor turn and angle of attack.

It wasn't the most manouverable type of the day but it wasn't the least either. That is why I said it had fair manouverability.


Nopr was the Mirage all that longed ranged.

By the standards of the fighters in its class (Mig-21, F-104, Lightning, Draken, F-5) it was the best of the lot when it came to range, I'm not sure but I think the F-8 may have been comparable. The only ones that significantly outranged it were big expensive types like the Phantom and the F-106.

Most Israeli kills were with the GUN. 

The early AAM's were not well suited for fighter on fighter combat but they were effective against bombers. That is why the 530 is important, in the interception role it allowed the Mirage to make a head on pass against a bomber formation before turning behind and attacking with Magics and guns. Given that fuel is always a consideration having an opportunity for a kill up front would have been well worth it. As it transpired there weren't many opportunities to fight bomber formations so this capability wasn't used, but it was still an important part of the Mirage's arsenal that the Lightning didn't have except for a very limited head on capability with Red Top.

In defense of the Lightning, the Feranti radar worked as did the missiles. You can't fault a target defense interceptor for being a target defense interceptor. 

 

Its radar was very limited and the missiles were horribly unreliable. Whats more building a target defence interceptor for a country with long-range approaches like the UK was a stupid idea in the first place. When they started designing it it was ubundantly clear that bombers wouldn't just be dropping freefall bombs in the future, stand-off weapons were a real prospect. The Lightning's short range meant that it had a severely limited ability to conduct CAP's and tackle standoff bombers. Essentially they built in obsolescence through a poor design philosphy, much like Mig did with the Mig-21.

 

Go look at the record of the Mig 21 in the first half of the Vietnam war, and see how many victories it had over F-4's and 105's. Most of those pilots that got those kills were Russian or well trained Vietnamese pilots, which some were aces.