first export sale for Rafale

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Rufus 6/23/2009 2:21:22 PM

"Because the clueless truck driver knows more than you do . Then , you dare call me a liar when I use open links on the Net , fair behaviour , NOT ."

lol Well at least you are amusing in your own pathetic way. Nobody here is fooled by your act for even a minute bluewings. You don't even know enough to make up credible lies.

"This is not "development funding" as the development of the engine has been completed , this is manufacturing funding that I am talking about . Why do I have to repeat things on and on ?"

You need to learn when it is a waste of time to lie. Maybe this kind of routine works when you are talking to the other truck drivers at a bar, but people here don't even need ten seconds to pull up the FACTS.

"The UAE is also demanding a higher thrust version of the fighter's Snecma M88 engine to suit the hot-and-high conditions prevalent in the Middle East. A test program for the new powerplant, aimed at raising thrust to 9 metric tons from 7.5 tons currently, was announced in the run-up to last week's Paris Air Show. The main focus of the program is a new high-pressure core design that will begin running in September as part of a package of improvements, known as the Pack CGP-9T, intended to reduce M88 ownership costs for the French armed forces.

A demonstrator for the low-pressure part of the engine began testing this spring. The test program would enable the higher-power version to be available within three years of contract signature, Snecma executives say.

For the time being, the question of funding the M88 upgrade, estimated to cost 250-300 million euros, remains unresolved. So far, the French government says it has no requirement for the higher-thrust version, which means the UAE would have to pick up the tab - perhaps along with other interested customers like Kuwait, with a similar requirement. But the government had initially dragged its feet at funding the AESA, forcing industry to bear the cost of development through deferral of a six-aircraft Rafale order, only to reinstate the order last year."

h*tp://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/SUBMIT062209.xml&headline=United%20Arab%20Emirates%20Closing%20in%20on%20Rafale

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Bluewings12 6/23/2009 3:42:38 PM

Aviationweek is not telling you everything Rufus , far from it .

The M88-3 engine (9 to 9.5tons thrust) is running since 1994 and reached 95Kn in 1995 (14 years ago) .

Since , no less than 3 possible version of the M88-3 engines have been considered by Snecma .

Snecma is actually working on the M88-4 rated at 110Kn as a possible upgrade for the M2000 .

The problem is not technical but financial (as always in France) . You see that I 'm not lying , it is just that you do not know the problem from the inside .

Cheers .

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Rufus 6/23/2009 4:11:54 PM

The M88-3 engine (9 to 9.5tons thrust) is running since 1994 and reached 95Kn in 1995 (14 years ago) .

Since , no less than 3 possible version of the M88-3 engines have been considered by Snecma .

Snecma is actually working on the M88-4 rated at 110Kn as a possible upgrade for the M2000 .

So basically when caught lying, your response is to just try to tell bigger and bigger lies. Back in 1994 The M88 wasn't even able to meet its specified lifespan requirements, but you think they had an up-rated variant ready to go but sitting on the shelf?

If they had a 9-ton M88 engine ready to go 14 years ago... why are they now worried about developing a new one? Why don't they just take that 100% production ready engine off the shelf and offer it to the UAE?

The problem is not technical but financial (as always in France) . You see that I 'm not lying , it is just that you do not know the problem from the inside .

Ah yes, but truck drivers "know the problem from the inside." Let me guess, when you aren't delivering a load of widgets you are working a second job designing jet engines right?

I said it before and I will now say it again. You are a liar, and it is obvious. You aren't going to fool anyone here by making up this kind of stuff.

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Rufus 6/23/2009 4:40:39 PM

"The M88-3 engine (9 to 9.5tons thrust) is running since 1994 and reached 95Kn in 1995 (14 years ago) ."

DATE: 22/11/95

SOURCE:Flight International

Snecma/S Korea discuss M88 for KTX-II

SNECMA IS PUSHING a derivative of its M88 engine as the power plant for installation in South Korea's KTX-II advanced jet trainer/light-fighter project, as well as pursuing an increased power variant for a re-engine version of the French Dassault Mirage 2000....

The M88 is a 50kN dry-80kN with reheat (11,000-18,000lb)-class turbofan whose only application is the Dassault Rafale..., but Snecma chairman Bernard Dufour says that it is "just the start of a family of engines".

The company is already in talks with South Korea to offer the M88-2K, based on a proposed non-after-burning variant of the M88, the 50kN M88-2S.

Alongside projecting a family of "dry" M88s, Snecma is also looking at developing the 110kN M884. This project is at the preliminary design stage, but is aimed at eventually replacing the M53K in the Mirage 2000.

Dufour says that Snecma has begun studies into the eventual re-engineing of the Mirage 2000-5, whose single M53 engine would be replaced by an M88. The company is already looking at up-rated versions of the M88 for projected higher-weight versions of the Rafale - the M88-3 with a thrust of 90kN, and the M88-4 with 110kN - and he sees these as being suitable for the Mirage 2000.

"I don't see why the [re-engined] Mirage 2000 should not be in production in ten years' time - the delta plan form still seems to be the best, and there's nothing very new in airframes," Dufour says.

The French company, has already proposed the engine to Saab, as a potential replacement for the Volvo Aero Engines RM-12 (General Electric F-404) in the JAS39 Gripen, but Dufour says, that the marketing tie-up between Saab and British Aerospace... for the Gripen has "diminished" the chances of such a substitution being made.

He holds out more hope of his company selling the M88 - possibly in a non-after-burning "S" or "dry" form to South Korea.

link

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So basically "looking at" designing an engine is the same thing as having an actual "running" engine huh?

Now, are you going to admit you are wrong, or just lie some more?

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Bluewings12 6/23/2009 5:07:10 PM

Rufus , for the Xth time I am not lying . Check what I said about the M88 family and what you found on the Net , it is EXACTLY the same for God sake !

Yes Snecma started to design the M88-4 in 1995 (I was right) as a 110kn engine (I was right) for the M2000 (I was right) and the M88-3 was already on the bench (I was right) . That was in 1995 , 14 years ago .

Where is your problem ?

We are now 14 years later and the M88-3 is working as intended , thank you . As I explained before , the problem is with the manufacturing funding . France and Snecma will not start the production before 2011 .

Any other questions ?

Cheers .

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warpig 6/23/2009 5:23:12 PM

Guys, I think I've had an epiphany. The key to understanding BW's posts is the realization that 1) to him lying and exaggerating are two different things, and 2) putting the greatest possible spin on the story by selectively reporting facts and interpreting them in the most favorable way is completely reasonable and is merely telling the truth. Thus, keeping in mind 1) and 2), it is the "truth" to say there is a 9.5ton M88 ready to go right now.

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Bluewings12 6/23/2009 5:51:45 PM

Good epiphany Warpig !

Indeed , against US flag wavers I sometimes have to choose the good bits who go my way but I still say the thruth .

Unlike many well known US posters ...

Cheers .

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warpig 6/23/2009 6:33:14 PM

Exaggerating and selectively reporting only the favorable portions of the story is commiting the very worst sort of lying--yes, ***LYING***. Better to just say nothing than to speak/write with the intention to mislead--even if only by "merely" omitting certain pertinent, but known to you, details. Bad enough to be a bold liar; even worse to be a sly liar.

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Bluewings12 6/23/2009 7:23:19 PM

The poster who never choose his posting can throw me the first stone ...

Cheers .

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Bluewings12 6/23/2009 7:36:43 PM

Please Gents , stop it with your nonsenses . I am not lying , I only use the weapons at hand .

Everything I say can be verified (and has been verified) .

Let 's go back on topic .

Cheers .

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