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Subject: usajoe 's view on the Rafale
Bluewings12    6/18/2009 12:48:33 AM
I quote him :

""Listen carefully to what I have to say and don't put words in my mouth. I never said the Rafale can't deal with Pakistan's air threat, there you go again with your selective thinking. As for China, the Rafale can't deal with the newer Chinese Sukhois in BVR or WVR combat. BVR The Sukhoi has a more powerful radar and better A2A missiles. WVR combat the Sukhoi has a huge advantage with the HMS and the R-73. This was pointed out many times over. As for the Mig 35, India already has similar fighters and it would not have that much of a trouble converting to the Mig. Plus you can by two Migs for the price of one Rafale, and have about the same kind of capabilities. The SH is not even a question, it is better then the Rafale in every single aspect. That is why there is 0% chance of the Rafale winning the competition. I will not be shocked if the Rafale is the the first fighter to be thrown out of the competition. Look the Rafale might be ok for France's needes, but most countries do not want a fighter that costs almost 100 million dollars and gets outclassed by most 4th genaration aircraft in BVR and WVR role. The Rafale might be better in EW, survivability and a better deep strike bird than most Russian fighters but that is not what most countries want. If they pay that kind of money they want the A2A capabilities to. That is why the Rafale is in this predicament and the Typhoon, SH, Sukhoi, and even the Gripen are where they are, as far as exports are concerned. Now as far as the name calling is concerned, I already told you what I think about that, only cowards talk trash when they are thousands of miles away, grow up! You know BW the diffrence between me and you is i'm not a homer like you. If you go back and look at other posts you would see that I have defended the French Navy, when 5th guards and me were going at it, and also defended the leclerc tank when people were bashing it, but when it comes to French tech. you start posting blindly, and that is why every one gets on you. If the French had made the Typhoon and the Brits and Germans the Rafale, I would be saying the same thing about the British and Germans and would give the French their dues.""

Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       6/23/2009 7:45:56 PM
Beautifull response Herald ! Well done , it is even worse than I expected .
You 'll never cease to amaze me ...
 
Cheers .
 
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usajoe1    Keep up the comedy routine   6/23/2009 8:36:24 PM
 tell you when : as soon as the Russian LRF can get a firing solution and NOT before (25km or so) .
Before that , the Russian made fighter will have to deal with a low RCS and extremely powerfull ECMs .
But there is one way : to explain it to you bluntly , the Russian AWAC will spot the 4 Rafales flying in formation (if the Carbone pod is not used) and will send the datas back to the SU-xx . From there on , it will be a very difficult fight for both sides . The SU-xx will probably fire from the coodinates provided by its AWAC but outside their NEZ , at this time the Rafale 's Meteor are already closing in (fired with the help from the French AWAC coordinates and using the up-link) while two Rafales are turning away then coming back 25km behind the other two Rafales who tried to gain in altitude and speed . As soon as the EM Russian missiles go "live" , Spectra fools them while the Meteors are hitting . If there is any SU-xx left , the remaining and still alive 4 Rafales will take care of them medium range with all bells and whistles (and at close range if needed) .
This is how the FAF is expecting to use the Combo Rafale/Meteor/Mica .
 
This is one of your best funny shows yet, the best part was the Spectra fooling the Russian missiles.LOL! you never cease to amaze me.
 
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Bluewings12       6/23/2009 9:28:16 PM
Joe , stop laughing and prove me wrong .
Do you take the gauntlet ?
 
Cheers .
 
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Herald12345    Zhuk MS   6/23/2009 10:00:49 PM
has been tested by US. It will have a solution track on a FIGHTER SIZED OBJECT  most of the time at about 85 miles or about 130,000 meters. 

So you are a liar, again.
 
Herald 
 
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Reactive    *sigh*   6/23/2009 10:19:27 PM
God I hate this idiot trucker.
 
 
The only thing that I find makes his enduring presence less odious is the knowledge that he must actually know that he is both completely uneducated, unqualified to make any judgements on anything, and in deep denial. 
 

It must be those endless nights on his own... no one to talk to, no one to bore..
 
I just content myself with knowing that he has to massively overstate his relative knowledge and intelligence in order to make his mundane, repetitious, boring, fictionalised comments about his only friend in the world, the Rafale.
 
There is absolutely NO WAY THAT YOU ARE QUALIFIED TO MAKE ANY JUDGEMENTS ABOUT STATE OF THE ART AVIONICS GIVEN THAT YOU HAVE ONLY AN ELEMENTARY UNDERSTANDING OF THE SUBJECT. THIS IS WHY YOU ARE A TRUCKER AND NOT EMPLOYED BY DASSAULT.
 
His view reminds me of the views that creationists harbour. They have "faith" rather than knowledge, he "needs" the rafale to be really good, it's a very autistic and childlike behaviour pattern, verging on obsessive, probably befitting someone who "chooses" to spend his occupation in the company of himself, and him alone.
 
 There we are, might as well tell it like it is.
 
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Bluewings12       6/23/2009 10:20:33 PM
Herald , did the US used Spectra to fool the Russian radar ?
Obviously not .
 
Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       6/23/2009 10:26:11 PM
Reactive , I 've been a truck driver for the last 2 years and I love driving big trucks :-)
I 've also been in the French Air force for many years but not as a pilot .
Don 't BS me because I couldn 't care less , don 't waste your time .
 
Cheers .
 
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Reactive    *sigh*   6/23/2009 10:29:32 PM
And might I suggest keeping replies to "BW" et al to forms of abuse rather than weighted arguments, I prefer the approach that the scientific community takes against crackpot evangelists, which is essentially to ignore them, and refuse to debate people who are unable to grasp the basic concepts.
 
There is no point, the evidence is absolutely clear, categorical, there is nothing you, or anyone else can say that will change his mind, he has chosen to believe something that gives him comfort, and he is unable to let it go.
 
So cut him off by simply not ever replying to any comments about the rafale, if no one replies then his threads will look more and more like the paranoid ramblings of an obsessive.
 
To use an analogy, it is like arguing with an 8 year old about basic mathematics, you can't "prove" that he is wrong unless he understands the maths himself, similarly you can't ever "prove" bluewings wrong because he lacks the basic understanding of the principles involved in order to make a less subjective judgement on relative capability, his knowledge relies on repeated soundbites, exaggeration. 
 
Yo wouldn't entertain this guy in real life, a boring, lonely know-it-all fake, who paradoxically exhibits his genius and analytical excellence by hauling freight.
 
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Reactive       6/23/2009 10:38:55 PM
When in the french air force...
 
 
Pilot : No
Engineer : No
Navigator : No
 
 
I know what you did...
 
It makes perfect sense....
 
 
 
You DROVE TRUCKS!!
 
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usajoe1    Good Point!   6/23/2009 11:26:50 PM
There is no point, the evidence is absolutely clear, categorical, there is nothing you, or anyone else can say that will change his mind, he has chosen to believe something that gives him comfort, and he is unable to let it go.
Well said!
 
So cut him off by simply not ever replying to any comments about the rafale, if no one replies then his threads will look more and more like the paranoid ramblings of an obsessive.
I'm going to do exactly that.
 
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Bluewings12       6/24/2009 6:27:26 PM
Hey Gents , if I was really telling bulls nobody would even answer my posts .
The fact is that I ask people real questions and I always start with a good link(s) to make people think , then and only then , they start to respond . Am I to blame ?
Hell not !
 
I 've never been a Pilot but I 've been in the French Special Forces , I 've been twice in the sandbox but I couldn 't care less , I am here to defend the French war machine because almost US poster seems to think that the good old USA are the best at everything , which is far from the truth .
Now , if you wanna stay just in beween yourselves without having to listen to a f***ing Frenchman and to his fµµµing question , just ban me because I am going to stay .
 
Cheers . 
 
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warpig       6/24/2009 6:33:43 PM

Hey Gents , if I was really telling bulls nobody would even answer my posts .

 

Wrong.  It's precisely because you repetitiously post the same crap over again that many of us try to correct you and it in hope that 1) you will finally learn and shut up with the crap, and 2) that no one else will get suckered in by your crap.
 
 
I am here to defend the French war machine because almost US poster seems to think that the good old USA are the best at everything , which is far from the truth .


And that's exactly why so much of what you post sucks:  You have an agenda and because of that you are not objective in your content.
 
 
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Bluewings12       6/24/2009 6:42:35 PM
""And that's exactly why so much of what you post sucks:  You have an agenda and because of that you are not objective in your content.""
 
Since SP is a US site and you are at home , I am the guest and I say be objective too . You could start by admitting that the Rafale is superior to any F-teen . That would be a good begining and certainly not a lie .
 
Cheers .
 
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warpig       6/24/2009 6:58:23 PM

""And that's exactly why so much of what you post sucks:  You have an agenda and because of that you are not objective in your content.""

 

Since SP is a US site and you are at home , I am the guest and I say be objective too . You could start by admitting that the Rafale is superior to any F-teen . That would be a good begining and certainly not a lie .


 

Cheers .



 
 
I see you still can't tell your players without a program (that's American ballpark slang for reading a list that describes each player's statistics).  I'm the guy who has defended French tech on occasion, when it was warranted.  Going from F-16s and F-18A/B/C/Ds to EFs or Rafales would overall be an upgrade.  We'd need to make some changes and fill in some gaps that haven't been fully developed yet in the Eurocanards (particularly air-to-ground), but overall it would be an inprovement.  Since I am not impressed by airshow tricks when it comes to discussing air superiority fighters, I don't think I'd really want to trade Eurocanards for the F-15C(AESA) or F-18E/F(AESA), but the F-15C in particular needs some updated electronics to seal that decision.  And certainly I'd keep the F-15E over the EF or Rafale for heavy/long range strike, as well.
 
 
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Plague 043    better than any f-teen?   6/24/2009 7:02:37 PM
no aesa radar
no laser designator
no current exports
 
wanna rethink the fanboy comment?
 
have the rafale find a ground target. SELF designate it then drop a LGB on it.
2009 and the rafale STILL cannot do it.
phantoms did it in VIETNAM, why cant the rafale?     
 
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