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Subject: House Approves 12 more F-22's
mustang22    6/17/2009 11:24:53 PM
F-22 Funds Approved in Wee-Hours Vote By william matthews Published: 17 Jun 2009 17:04 Print Print | Print Email It hasn't flown in combat yet, but the F-22 stealth fighter prevailed in a life-or-death battle in an early-morning vote June 17 by the House Armed Services Committee. A vote early June 17 by the U.S. House Armed Services Committee means that the Pentagon will pay for work to begin in 12 more F-22 jets, even though Defense Secretary Robert Gates wants the program to end. (SENIOR AIRMAN ZACHARY WOLF / U.S. AIR FORCE) After more than 16 hours of squabbling over the 2010 defense budget, weary committee members voted 31-30 at 2:30 a.m. to keep the F-22 program alive by making a $369 million down payment on 12 more planes. Related Topics * Americas * Air Warfare U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates had intended to end F-22 production at 187 fighters, but House lawmakers overruled him. The $369 million would buy advance procurement parts to begin production on a dozen new fighters. Ultimately, the planes would cost about $2.8 billion. The advance procurement money would be taken from funds budgeted for Energy Department cleanups at nuclear weapons sites, a House aide said. Although it is the Air Force's most advanced and most expensive fighter, the F-22 has never been flown in combat, a point Gates has stressed repeatedly in appearances before Congress. When he announced April 6 that he wanted to end F-22 production, Gates said, "For me, it was not a close call. ? The military advice that I got was that there is no military requirement for numbers of F-22s beyond the 187." In the past, the Air Force has said it needed 381 F-22s. More recently it lowered the number to 243 until Gates put a 187-plane cap on the program. But the fighter is popular in Congress, where it is praised as providing the Air Force with a high-tech advantage over potential foes, and is prized for creating jobs. Plane maker Lockheed has emphasized that the F-22 program employees 25,000 workers directly and another 90,000 in companies that produce F-22 parts in 44 states. The amendment to save the F-22 was introduced by Rep. Rob Bishop, R-Utah. "We would liked to have funded a full buy of 12 aircraft," an aide to Bishop said. But Armed Services Committee Chairman Rep. Ike Skelton prohibited amendments that would add to the overall cost of the defense budget. Bishop was able to shift $369 million for the F-22s from defense environmental cleanups at sites that are projected to be ahead of schedule or are at risk of not being able to spend money allocated for 2010, the aide said. It's enough to keep the F-22 production line from shutting down, but Bishop and others on the committee believe the Air Force needs more than 12 additional F-22s, he said. While the Armed Services Committee was saving future F-22s, the full House approved spending $600 million to buy the final four planes that Gates wants. Money for those planes is included in a $106 billion "emergency supplemental" bill used to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Language in that bill prohibits using the F-22 money to shut down the F-22 production line, and it permits the Defense Department to consider building a less capable version of the F-22 for sale overseas. The war-funding bill thwarts Gates' efforts to end another aircraft program, the C-17 cargo plane. Gates said the 205 C-17s that are already in the fleet or under construction are enough, and he included no money in the 2010 defense budget for additional C-17s. But the House and Senate added $2.7 billion to war-funding bill to buy eight C-17s and seven smaller C-130J cargo planes. The additional C-17s are "pure pork," said Christopher Hellman, a defense budget analyst for the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation. Buying more C-17s "can only be characterized as a jobs program." And C-17 maker Boeing has done just that. In February the company boasted that C-17 production sustained 30,000 jobs in 43 states, with concentrations in California, Texas, Missouri and Connecticut. Its a start, can't say that I'm surprised. Probably want to keep the line open to assess actual requirements and evaluate the tactical aircraft situation as a whole. Darth, this is NOT an I told you so but I am extremely pleased with this decision as I'm sure other posters here are as well.
 
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Bluewings12       6/17/2009 11:37:25 PM
$233 millions each ?!
Do you include Gold or Platinum in your RAM paint ?
 
Cheers .
 
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DarthAmerica       6/17/2009 11:37:52 PM
Its a start, can't say that I'm surprised. Probably want to keep the line open to assess actual requirements and evaluate the tactical aircraft situation as a whole. Darth, this is NOT an I told you so but I am extremely pleased with this decision as I'm sure other posters here are as well.

Mustang, I don't know if you remember, but I said I didn't have an issue if CONGRESS provided additional funding for more planes and that I have no objection to a few more planes up to the 250 number so long as that does not affect ANY other defense program. I don't think the sky will fall if we leave it at 187 but it could if we take funding from other programs for more.

And I don't take your post as an I told you so. We treat each other far better than that even in disagreement. We've discussed this many times and the consensus was that only congress could provide more. I'm happy for the USAF. 

-DA 
 
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mustang22       6/18/2009 12:03:05 AM
Agreed, not sure where the 233 million is coming from though. Is that because the previous and  remaining aircraft were under a different contract and this is a much smaller addition?
 
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mustang22       6/18/2009 12:08:14 AM

$233 millions each ?!

Do you include Gold or Platinum in your RAM paint ?

 

Cheers .


Which one does the Rafale come with?
 
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DarthAmerica    Mustang Reply...   6/18/2009 12:13:19 AM
FYI - RECAP

DarthAmerica       4/7/2009 4:34:03 PM











However, the political reality is what I posted coming out of the Senate and House Democrats - especially from states where LockMart is big (e.g. Conn., GA, Calif, Texas) - these are the guys who will make the final say.  At this point - I see the urge to keep the defense jobs on the F-22 overiding any Obama urge to cut it (or Gates for that matter).

 

Thems the facts....


 

I can see this having a tough time getting through congress considering we aren't talking about an elderly outdated weapon system.

-DA 
 
 

 
 
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Bluewings12       6/18/2009 12:15:41 AM
The most expensive version of Rafale comes at $72 million .
 
Cheers .
 
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DarthAmerica       6/18/2009 12:23:59 AM

The most expensive version of Rafale comes at $72 million .

 

Cheers .


BW,

This is why people give you such a hard time here. It's common knowledge among aviation enthusiast that an F-22 is a very expensive airplane. It is far more advanced than any 4th Gen fighter and cost more in general. Having said that, why are you posting about the Rafale here? And why are you making mention of the F-22's cost? Both points are off topic and irrelevant to the discussion and will only invite other trolls and flamers here. Please, stop.

Thanks
DA 
 
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warpig       6/18/2009 12:24:24 AM

The most expensive version of Rafale comes at $72 million .

 

Cheers .




Exactly.  I'll gladly take either gold or platinum in my RAM paint along with all the rest that $233million (or however much it actually ends up being) per aircraft for another 12 F-22 to bring the total up to 199 jets, rather than what you're getting for $72million a piece.
 
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Bluewings12       6/18/2009 12:35:30 AM
DA :
""why are you posting about the Rafale here?""
 
Because Mustang asked me what the Rafale 's RAM paint wad made of .
Back to the topic  now ;-)
 
Cheers .
 
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usajoe1    Good News   6/18/2009 12:48:30 AM
I'm pleased to hear this news, but I still think we need more of them.
 
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