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Subject: Israels JSF plans
usajoe1    6/17/2009 1:57:20 AM
Should the US allow Israel to instal its own locally developed systems on the F-35, and how much more effective can the bird be with it.I personally do not see a problem here since we are not going to face the IADF. They have done the same thing with the F-15/16's.
 
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usajoe1    DA   6/17/2009 6:00:05 PM
If Israel attacks Iran the regional collateral damage could be catastrophic. So long as Americans are in the ME and an attack is coordinated with Washington then we should oppose publicly and physically stop it if it means the IDF/AF is going over Iraqi Airspace. Now before anybody starts flying off the handle I don't think it would ever come to that and simply not giving the Israeli's the over flight permissions would most likely be enough to stop it. If U.S. Fighters rise up to challenge then the IDF/AF would most likely abort because with all of the electronic noise such an event would generate the IDF/AF would lose surprise making a very dubious mission, mission impossible.

I think the Israeli's are well aware of the military and political limitations they face and are unlikely to attempt something like this without US support. Just consider this thread. Israel NEEDS a benefactor like the USA in order to maintain a technologically advanced military and security guarantee. At the end of the day, they must concede to our demands on major issues like this. Our alliance is a matter of national survival for them. Just an unfortunate reality of their geography but reality non the less. Some illegal unilateral strike against Iran would almost certainly end at least temporarily any deliveries of advanced combat weapons systems.

-DA 
 
Why do you constantly keep saying that we should stop Israel from attacking Iran. Iran is the biggest threat to Israel, and if they feel like they need to take action to keep their citizens safe then we have no right to stop them. The government of Israel is sworn to protect its citizens from domestic and foreign threats, just like any other sovereign nation, and as a sovereign nation they have the right to take action if they feel threatened, and not worry about what the US or UK might think. At the end of the day they are the ones that are in range of most Iranian weapons, not big brother who's on the other side of the ocean. I'm very well aware of the consequences of such an action, and if there is a way to keep this from happining diplomatically, then i'm all for it, but that is for Israel to decide, and we should back them up diplomatically and if necessary with military force.
 
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DarthAmerica    USAJOE reply   6/17/2009 8:50:55 PM
Please go back and read the first two sentences of my last post. The answer you are looking for is there.

Regards
-DA 
 
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usajoe1       6/17/2009 9:21:05 PM
Please go back and read the first two sentences of my last post. The answer you are looking for is there.
 
That is not an answer, it is total BS. It does not matter what you think, Israel has a very serious threat and your answer "regional collateral damage could be catastrophic"  does not hold any validity. If we go by your way of thinking then the British and the French should not of declared war on Germany when they attacked Poland, because look at the catastrophe it caused. I'm convinced that you and Obama and everyone else who thinks like this is not going to be satisfied until there is a big mushroom cloud over Jerusalem.
 
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DarthAmerica       6/17/2009 9:56:34 PM

Please go back and read the first two sentences of my last post. The answer you are looking for is there.

 

That is not an answer, it is total BS. It does not matter what you think, Israel has a very serious threat and your answer "regional collateral damage could be catastrophic"  does not hold any validity. If we go by your way of thinking then the British and the French should not of declared war on Germany when they attacked Poland, because look at the catastrophe it caused. I'm convinced that you and Obama and everyone else who thinks like this is not going to be satisfied until there is a big mushroom cloud over Jerusalem.

LOL you want to debate but then dismiss the truth? I just told you why the last two admins oppose any overt IDF operation into Iran. What do you not get about it NOT BEING IN AMERICAN INTEREST? You think it's just so easy dont you.

-DA 
 
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usajoe1       6/17/2009 10:14:42 PM
 
LOL you want to debate but then dismiss the truth? I just told you why the last two admins oppose any overt IDF operation into Iran.
I know that, and to me it is very dangerous and a sad state of affairs.
What do you not get about it NOT BEING IN AMERICAN INTEREST? You think it's just so easy dont you.
I never said it was easy, and it is in Americas interest to back up one of the very few true allies we have. Just because it is not easy or the politically correct thing to do, does not mean America should abandon its moral obligation to its friend.
 
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DarthAmerica       6/17/2009 10:32:59 PM

 

LOL you want to debate but then dismiss the truth? I just told you why the last two admins oppose any overt IDF operation into Iran.

I know that, and to me it is very dangerous and a sad state of affairs.

What do you not get about it NOT BEING IN AMERICAN INTEREST? You think it's just so easy dont you.

I never said it was easy, and it is in Americas interest to back up one of the very few true allies we have. Just because it is not easy or the politically correct thing to do, does not mean America should abandon its moral obligation to its friend.



It's more than that. Backing up Israel in this case is not in our interest. IT WILL KILL HUNDREDS of Americans AT LEAST? Do you understand that? Do you realize that Iraq is not stable enough to handle this and a lot of us died to get to where we are? Do you want to throw that all away before we secure it such that it can defend itself?

-DA 
 
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usajoe1    DA   6/18/2009 1:14:26 AM
So do you think we should let Iran build nuclear weapons and sit back and one day watch Israel get nuked. I know there is a little chance of this happening, but if there is one country that might use this kind of weapons it's Iran, you know it and I know it. Even if that does not happen, do you really want Iran to blackmail the US and have a nuclear arms race in the middle east, because that will happen for sure. I will love to see a middle east with a nuclear Iran, Israel, S. Arabia, Turkey etc... that will be a pleasant site from this peacful and peace loving region.
 
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smitty237    Boys, boys   6/18/2009 2:22:07 AM
Israeli defense policy is a very unique one in that their sworn enemies have sworn to wipe them off the face of the Earth.  As far as the Israelis are concerned, the first war they lose will be their last one......ever.  Right now Israel's biggest ally in the world is the United States, but Israel's primary interest is its own survival and doing everything it can from preventing its enemies from acquiring the means to destroy it.  As long as America's interests include protecting Israel from its enemies, it is in Israel's interest to continue this close relationship, but as soon as Israel detects that the United States' interests are in conflict with Israel's survival in any way, shape, or form then Israel will act without consulting the US or particularly caring how it will affect our foreign policy interests in the region.  
Israel showed a tremendous amount of restraint during the 1991 Gulf War.  Iraq was launching Scuds into Israel, but did not retaliate because they knew that it would shatter the fragile coalition that the United States was depending upon to defeat Iraq.  In that particular instance our two interests were mutually beneficial, but had Iraq attacked Israel with chemical weapons then Israel would have responded regardless of how it would have affected the coalition or our mission of kicking Iraq out of Kuwait. 
 
The biggest thing that Israel has going for it is the support of not just the American Jewish community, but the American Christian community as well, particularly Evangelical Christians.  Christians are concerned with Israel's security for both historical and religious reasons, and as America becomes more secular those factors will begin to wane in significance.  I've heard a number of liberals openly advocate that we reduce our economic, military, and political support for Israel in order to curry more favor with the Arabs, and some are even openly hostile to Israel, declaring it to be the problem, and not so subtly saying that the world would be better off if Israel didn't exist at all.  President Obama is not a terribly popular figure in Israel right now because many Israelis suspect that Obama is not nearly committed to Israel's security and survival as past Presidents have been.  Judging by the things Obama has said to both Israel and the Islamic world, I feel that this sentiment is justified.  Obama may be willing to allow Iran to possess nuclear weapons if it will promote regional stability, but the Israelis will not...........nor should they. 
 
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usajoe1    smitty237   6/18/2009 2:50:12 AM

Well said, I only wish our current administration knew the implacation of its actions in regards to the Middle East. I'm afraid to say that Obamas policies towards the Middle East, are the same as Chamberlain and Daladier were towards Germany before the war., it's sad but it is true.

 
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SpudmanWP       6/18/2009 5:53:07 PM
I think that we should allow access to the API (Application Programming Interface).  This would allow them to develop their own systems without knowing exactly how the original equipment works.
 
I thought the purpose of an "Open Architecture" system was the ease of adding components.
 
I am looking forward to their work with Conformal F-35 tanks and an active EW system.
 
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