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Subject: F-22 pulled from Paris Airshow
DarthAmerica    6/16/2009 10:36:39 PM
PARIS (Reuters) - The U.S. Air Force has pulled its premiere F-22 fighter jet from the Paris Air Show, citing other demands on its time, said a spokesman for Lockheed Martin Corp, which builds the Raptor. Spokesman Christopher Trippick said on Monday that the F-22 also would not make an appearance at the Royal International Air Tattoo, the world's largest military air show, to be held next month in Britain. The F-22 made its first international air show appearance at the Farnborough Air Show last year, a 12-minute flight that generated a great deal of buzz. It also flew at the Royal International Air Tattoo. Trippick said the Air Force decision was based on availability, but had no further information. But European industry executives said there might have been concerns over whether the stealth plane would be exposed to radar trying to unlock its secrets. Lockheed's F-117 stealth fighter made an appearance at the 1991 Paris Air Show, but two years later, the Clinton administration boycotted the appearance of any U.S. military aircraft at the show. One industry executive, who asked not to be named, said the French government had reportedly used its ultra low-frequency, long-range radar to track the aircraft on its approach to the airfield, sparking concerns among U.S. officials. The Obama administration said in April that it would only order four more of the radar-evading fighters, capping production at 187 planes. Some U.S. lawmakers are pushing to repeal a law banning exports of the aircraft to keep the production line running a little longer. But Air Force Chief of Staff General Norton Schwartz last week said F-22 exports also faced other significant obstacles, including the cost to protect or remove classified equipment from the aircraft, and a likely break in production before any exports could be approved, which would raise the cost. Industry executives said the U.S. government may have decided it would be imprudent to bring the fighter to the air show, since the export ban is still in effect and especially since Defense Secretary Robert Gates has told close U.S. allies like Japan that it is not for sale. (Reporting by Andrea Shalal-Esa with additional reporting by Tim Hepher in Paris; Editing by Lisa Von Ahn and Maureen Bavdek)
 
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Bluewings12       6/21/2009 10:19:46 PM
Herald :
""Retransmitted deceptive signals in both freq and amplitude, blanking, burnout, ghosting, transmitted sidelobe distortion, half phasing,.......... haven't got a clue as to what I'm telling you eh?""
 
Yes I do , but as I said you can 't use such means in Peace time .
If you wanna talk about War time , you explain to me how the USA could bring such means 200km away from the French border in a safe manner ;-)
 
Cheers .
 
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warpig       6/22/2009 12:34:56 AM

You forgot a "0" , Nostradamus can detect anything flying 2500km away and start a decent track at 2000km .


 
Sure... depending on time of day, time of year, time of solar cycle(s), and tropospheric "weather."  This causes the volume of airspace centered on Dreux Senonches AB in France to on average resemble a torus that under ideal conditions has an outer radius of 2000km and an inner radius of 700km.  However, conditions are basically never ideal, and at any moment and in any given direction that maximum ranges can shrink significantly, while that minimum range can increase significantly, due to the above-listed atmospheric influences.  Thus it may or may not detect anything at 2000km on a given azimuth at a given moment.  Furthermore, all it will detect is that there is one or more unidentified aircraft in that detection cell.  It sure would suck for France if among the hundreds of aircraft it is tracking flying here and there were some LO bombers flying close formation on some civilian airliners until they got within approximately 700km of Dreux Senonches AB and therefore within France's ability to detect LO bandits, before breaking off to launch on the Nostradomus facility--thus removing France's future ability to detect any more LO bandits in follow-on raids against the rest of the French IADS and C4 networks.
 
Thankfully, Russia doesn't have any LO bombers with which to do this, so France can breathe easy.
 
 
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Herald12345       6/22/2009 1:00:13 AM

Herald :


""Retransmitted deceptive signals in both freq and amplitude, blanking, burnout, ghosting, transmitted sidelobe distortion, half phasing,.......... haven't got a clue as to what I'm telling you eh?""

 

Yes I do , but as I said you can 't use such means in Peace time .

If you wanna talk about War time , you explain to me how the USA could bring such means 200km away from the French border in a safe manner ;-)


 

Cheers .



Yes we can, and yes we do.
 
I don't need to waste my time with you. If you want to know what I know; just hop a plane and enroll in one of our finer Engineering schools over here. They'll teach you the difference between a droop sensor and an auto-cannon, how armor works, what parasitic drag is, and how a radar is basically just a ranging radio. They will teach you how to fool it with everything from noisy microwave ovens to exploiting atmospheric humidity, to purpose built electronic warfare systems, to just knowing what crap limits and reads poorly made and designed radars give to their harassed operators,  like the defective sidelobe noise stricken RBE2 has for example. 
 
Better hope the same buffoons did not have a hand in Nostradamus. OOPS.
 
Oh well.. Did you know that ROTHR and Jindalee work just fine? 
 
Let me know when you catch on...........
 
Herald
 
 

 
 
 
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gf0012-aust       6/22/2009 1:49:58 AM

You call me an idiot and you dare posting such non sense ???

Me , I am telling you that your F-22 and B-2 are tracked 2000km away by our low-frequency radars .

and another throw away line that gets you into trouble.  Considering that the only non US transoceanic/international journeys that the F-22 has been on are to Japan, then that makes your claim to tracking them BS.  Japan is slightly more than 2000km away from France - and is in the opposite direction to Nostradamus view set anyway.  The other loc is Hawai'i.  Now the last time I was in Hawai'i looking at half a dozen F-22's heading off to Okinawa, I was pretty sure that Hawai'i was still in the Pacific - and a bit more than 2000km away from a red OTHR grid.

 
 
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Bluewings12       6/22/2009 7:37:57 PM
Warpig , thank you . I am going to write right away to the French minister of Defense (Hervé Morin) and ask him to dismantle Nostradamus as it is such a crap and useless radar . We French are too stupid to see the truth , than you again Warpig .
 
You are also right Herald , don 't loose your time with me or you could take the risk to learn something  . Myself , I have no problem to admit that I do sometimes learn stuff from the posters here on SP , it happens quite frequently actually .
Herald , your knowledge on ground warfare in general , in Infantry tactics , Commando Ops and Tanks is very average while it is my field , sorry to say .
I will also specify in my letter to the French MoD to be very carefull about a US invasion of noisy microwave ovens , thank you .
 
Cheers .
 
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Herald12345    U already know how to drive.   6/22/2009 8:02:48 PM
What could you teach me? Seriously, I want to know what you can teach me? French? 
 
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warpig       6/22/2009 11:35:41 PM

Warpig , thank you . I am going to write right away to the French minister of Defense (Hervé Morin) and ask him to dismantle Nostradamus as it is such a crap and useless radar . We French are too stupid to see the truth , than you again Warpig .

 



I'm not the one who constantly swoons over it as if it is some sort of magic crystal ball, so don't come crying to me if it can't do everything you thought it could.  However, again, like I said more than once already, since the Russians don't have any LO bombers it remains a useful C4ISR sensor that (within its operating limitations, just like how every sensor has certain strengths and weaknesses) can contribute to the overall air surveillance picture that, along with the various other sources of early warning that France has as part of their integrated air surveillance network, will hopefully give the French air defense the data it needs to protect its airspace.
 
 
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Bluewings12       6/23/2009 6:04:08 PM
Herald :
""What could you teach me? Seriously, I want to know what you can teach me? French?"" 
 
After such response , what could I say ? It seems that you know everything about everything ...
Herald , vous etes un imbecile de première classe avec un ego digne d 'Hitler .
It is all I have to say for now .
 
Cheers .
 
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Herald12345    Okay, punk.   6/23/2009 6:18:11 PM
I don't have to be compared to Hitler.
 
That is a libel. SYSOPS?
 
Herald
 
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Bluewings12       6/23/2009 6:22:45 PM
Herald , don 't start . You perfectly translated what I wrote :
 
"Herald , you are a first class imbecile with an Ego worthy of Hitler 's ""
 
I do not compare you to Hitler .
 
Cheers .
 
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