The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - November 23, 2009




New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Modern Air Power: War Over the Middle East
2.Commander: Napoleon at War
3.Close Combat: Watch am Rhein
4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 
Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: BAE pitching Typhoon as F-22 eludes
maruben    6/12/2009 6:00:08 PM
Friday, June 12, 2009


BAE pitching Typhoon as F-22 eludes
Europeans make move amid U.S. export ban on stealth fighter


By JUN HONGO
Staff writer
Japan should consider adopting the Eurofighter Typhoon as its next mainstay fighter jet even if the U.S. lifts its ban on exporting the stealthy F-22 Raptor, representatives of a U.K.-based defense and aerospace company said Thursday in Tokyo.

The Air Self-Defense Force is eager to replace about 50 of its aging F-4s with the high-tech F-22 for its agility and high stealth capabilities.





But recent reports indicate Washington is unlikely to sell its latest and greatest airplane to just anyone, while others say the ¥25 billion plane is too expensive.

Andy Latham, BAE System Inc. vice president in charge of Typhoon exports, told reporters that since the Typhoon costs only about ¥10 billion, it presents "an effective non-U.S. solution" with significant benefits for Japan.

The Typhoon, made by a consortium of European manufacturers, is already used by the air forces in Europe. Although export of the F-22 would be strictly controlled to prevent its military technology from falling into the wrong hands, Latham said selling the Typhoon will take a "no black box approach."

The biggest difference between the two planes will be the "ability to offer Japan's industry a significant package of work," he said, explaining that the consortium could allow licensed manufacturing of the fighter in Japan and integration with Japanese equipment.

As for the Typhoon's lack of stealth capability, however, BAE System's Craig Penrice said stealth technology should not be considered an issue.

"Stealth is not the silver bullet answer that some might have you think," the former Royal Air Force pilot said, adding that the Typhoon has overall countermeasures against radar detection, including reduced infrared emissions.

By comparison, stealth is "not cheap, not low maintenance and not fully exportable," he said.

In total, Tokyo is considering six candidates to replace its F-4EJ fighters, including the U.S. F-35, which is still under development.

BAE has been pitching the Typhoon to Japan for years, although Tokyo and Washington have a strong defense alliance that leaves little room for non-U.S. bidders, Latham said.

Despite recent reports indicating the U.S. is unlikely to provide the F-22 to Japan, Defense Minister Yasukazu Hamada said Tuesday the fighter "remains an option that will be pursued."

Japan's strong interest in the aircraft is based not only on its capabilities but also on its compatibility with the U.S. Air Force, which the ASDF would work closely with in the event Japan is attacked.

Some observers also say Tokyo is eager to update its aircraft with the most up-to-date fighter available so it can claim air superiority over China, which is continuing to build its military power.

Japan's current mainstay fighter is the U.S.-designed F-15 Eagle.

P-3C patrols start
Kyodo News
A Maritime Self-Defense Force P-3C surveillance plane made its first patrol Thursday over the pirate-infested Gulf of Aden off Somalia, the Defense Ministry said.

The aircraft is one of two P-3Cs dispatched last month on the first overseas mission by MSDF patrol planes. They are supporting the two MSDF destroyers that have been patrolling for pirates in the gulf since late March.

The P-3Cs will gather information on suspicious ships to pass on to the destroyers and the commercial vessels they escort. The information will also be conveyed to navy vessels from other countries operating in the area, according to the ministry.

After arriving in Djibouti late last month, the P-3Cs had been conducting training flights. The aircraft are using the international airport in Djibouti as their operational base.

The destroyers have been escorting Japanese-related commercial vessels.
 
Quote    Reply

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted

Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12   NEXT
Herald12345       6/23/2009 9:37:42 PM

Herald :


""If you looked carefully at the three examples I wove together you'd understand, but since you don't know about what an underpowered engine set, a poor lift aspect, and  the usual 1%er whitewash about a jet that failed to maintain instrumented horizon fix means, I suppose you can be forgiven for being ignorant.""

 

You must be joking but I know you don 't , it 's worse . 

lol !


How dare you talk about poor lift , underpowered engine set ??? I show you what is poor lift and underpowered engines :

Look again at this video :


h*tp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dohKKp0EvTs&hl=fr

 

From 0:24 seconds to the crash , the F-16 is not flying anymore , it is SINKING . The jet is UNABLE to get any lift and its AoA (angle of attack) is piss poor . Then , it also lacks the needed thrust to escape the ground .


NOW , look again at the Rafale video over the Ocean and check from 0:16 seconds to the end . The jet find its lift muuuch earlier on , then its AoA reaches 30deg and the M88 engines kicks in and it shows .

 

Herald , you supposed to understand what I just said so stop your crap , thank you .

 

Cheers .



The Rafale went to burner in an oh shit moment, stupid.
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       6/23/2009 9:40:00 PM
Nice try and nice excuse Beazz but your explanation does not stand , the video is very clear . The pilot ejected because he knew that his jet was unable to recover and that 's it .
A Rafale would have simply completed the figure and get some applause .
 
h*tp://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/6-59562.aspx
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       6/23/2009 9:44:31 PM
Herald :
""The Rafale went to burner in an oh shit moment, stupid.""
 
Yeah right !  It has to !
Fortunatly , it wasn 't a F-teen ...
 
Cheers .

 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       6/23/2009 9:46:52 PM
I said :
""Fortunatly , it wasn 't a F-teen ...""
 
Or a F-35 .
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    he pilot in the Rafale bolo went to burner and piutched up in desperation because he saw his goof up by looking out the cockpit as he descended into i   6/23/2009 9:52:11 PM

Nice try and nice excuse Beazz but your explanation does not stand , the video is very clear . The pilot ejected because he knew that his jet was unable to recover and that 's it .

A Rafale would have simply completed the figure and get some applause .


 

h*tp://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/6-59562.aspx


 

Cheers .


Look at that video again, prevaricator.

If not a desperation maneuver and reheat , KABOOM! Like I said you don't know what you discuss, and you lie when you pretend you do.
 
I would think you would at least pay close attention to what you see around you as a truck driver. Based on the evidence you so freely give about your lack of attention to detail and what you miss (obvious), I don't see how you expect us to take your declarations as anything but the ravings of a fanboy, that is those declarations (fantasies) you hope to palm off as fact that aren't instead your outright lies.. 
 
Herald
 
 
Quote    Reply

ArtyEngineer    F16 Crash   6/23/2009 9:52:30 PM
Folks, here is a link to the details of the Thunderbirds Crash at Mountain Home AFB:
 
 
Bottom line is the Pilot had 1000ft less altitude AGL than he thought he did to complete his Split S.
 
If BW believes the Rafale cold have pulled out of this situation then quite frankly its a shame I have to do random drug tests as I would be wanting some of whatever hes smoking :)  Or is the ability to generate some sort of Gravity neutralising inertial dampening field another feature of the legendary SPECTRA that we are currently unaware of!!!!
 
Regards
 
Arty
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       6/23/2009 10:06:29 PM
Nice find Arty :-)
 
The US pilot indeed made a gross mistake but as I said before :
""From 0:24 seconds to the crash , the F-16 is not flying anymore , it is SINKING . The jet is UNABLE to get any lift and its AoA (angle of attack) is piss poor . Then , it also lacks the needed thrust to escape the ground .""
 
A Rafale would have completed the loop , that I have no doubt and it is why I said :
""NOW , look again at the Rafale video over the Ocean and check from 0:16 seconds to the end . The jet find its lift muuuch earlier on , then its AoA reaches 30deg and the M88 engines kicks in and it shows .""
 
Look again at the F-16 video and tell me that I 'm wrong ...
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       6/23/2009 10:14:34 PM
Gentlemen , you are actually wrongly trying to compare the Rafale Aerodynamics , flight characteristics , agility , thrust  , response time engines , etc with a F-16 . Are you all gone mad or what !?
 
There is no F-teen who can fly like a Rafale , keep that in your american minds . Bring your F-22 and try to fly as fast and as sharp as the Rafale does , then we 'll see .
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    kOOK AT THE ALTITUDE OF THE TOP OF THE MANEUVER.   6/23/2009 10:16:30 PM

Nice find Arty :-)

 

The US pilot indeed made a gross mistake but as I said before :



""From 0:24 seconds to the crash , the F-16 is not flying anymore , it is SINKING . The jet is UNABLE to get any lift and its AoA (angle of attack) is piss poor . Then , it also lacks the needed thrust to escape the ground .""

 

A Rafale would have completed the loop , that I have no doubt and it is why I said :



""NOW , look again at the Rafale video over the Ocean and check from 0:16 seconds to the end . The jet find its lift muuuch earlier on , then its AoA reaches 30deg and the M88 engines kicks in and it shows .""

 

Look again at the F-16 video and tell me that I 'm wrong ...

 

Cheers .


 

 




I know its hard for you to admit that you can't see these obvious things but even you can't be that stupid.
 
Let me know when you catch on. 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Bluewings12       6/23/2009 10:33:18 PM
It doesn ' t matter Herald !  The F-16 is simply unable to do anything and is simply sinking .
I am still telling you that a Rafale would have completed the loop . 
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply

Beazz       6/23/2009 10:37:29 PM

Nice try and nice excuse Beazz but your explanation does not stand , the video is very clear . The pilot ejected because he knew that his jet was unable to recover and that 's it .

A Rafale would have simply completed the figure and get some applause .


 

h*tp://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/6-59562.aspx


 

Cheers .



LOL.. BW, you either just wish to argue for the sake of it or are a complete idiot when it comes to aviation. As in the article that Arty posted a link to and just what I elluded to:
He made his calculation based on an incorrect mean-sea-level altitude of the airfield.
 
Do you even know what *mean-sea-level* is BW? In case you don't. Which is obvious, that is the ALTIMETER setting I referred to earlier. He set his altimeter setting 100 points off you moron.  I had not even saw the article on the crash and could come to that conclusion simply by watching the pilots actions and reaction. Anyone that is remotely familiar with aviation would have picked up on that. Reading airplane articles on the net does not make one familiar with aviation does it BW? lol I bet without doing a Google search you have NO clue what IFR and VFR is.
 
A Rafail under that exact situation would have had the exact same outcome!! It's called pilot error and the plane had nada to do with it.
 
Beazz

 
Quote    Reply

Beazz       6/23/2009 10:50:02 PM

It doesn ' t matter Herald !  The F-16 is simply unable to do anything and is simply sinking .

I am still telling you that a Rafale would have completed the loop . 

 

Cheers .



BW, of course the F16 is sinking. What part of this are you unable to get a grip on? Don't you know that the airshow stunts are all precise based on certain altitudes, speeds and locations of the maneuver? The F16 and ANY other a/c coming out of that loop and being at 1000ft would be sinking until they applied power as that was also the F16's plan. What you seem to be UNABLE to grasp is instead of being at 1000ft he was 1/2 second from ground impact when he realized his mistake and there was no recovery possible for the F16 or any other plane that would have found itself in that exact position.
It's become quiet obvious you have no clue what is involved in airshow stunts and even more so have no clue what is actually involved with flying an airplane and how pilots use instrumentation!! You claim to have this vast knowledge of all things technical and whiz bang on fighters, but yet you don't even have a basic understanding of what instrument flight is!! Geez
 
Beazz
 
Quote    Reply

warpig       6/23/2009 11:30:12 PM
I think three or four people have tried to explain it to you, but now I will, too.  Hopefully, you'll actually get it after all this.
 
It's called Controlled Flight Into Terrain (CFIT).  He hit the ground because he never tried to avoid the ground, or what little bit he tried he initiated far too late to make enough difference.  He was following a flight path that would have brought him out of the maneuver at a nice safe comfortable altitude and would not have crashed at all... if he had entered the airfield's altitude into his avionics properly.  Instead, as he was flying the maneuver as per his training based on what his instruments told him, he unknowingly was actually flying a path right into the ground.  All aircraft following the same path he was following would also have flown right into the ground just like he did, or to put it another way, that same pilot performing that same maneuver the same way he did it in his F-16 would still have hit the ground in the same way he did no matter what aircraft he was flying.  The only reason he survived is because he did notice something was wrong long enough before the crash to initiate ejection and still make it out alive.  If he had been flying a Rafale toward the ground in the same way, and noticed at the same time he did in his F-16, then the same result would have occurred.
 
 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust       6/23/2009 11:44:18 PM

jf , with all your respect , you are fighting for a lost cause .

I believe that the bloke (Inouye) has excellent insides .

Cheers . 

stop trolling.  there are legal issues.  what they can and cannot do.  who can talk to who is actually governed by State - not by a congressman trying to curry votes in his electoriate having been part of ITARs discussions I'd hazard a guess that I've got more of a clue than a few on here.  
facts trump belief every time.  if you think that Inouye has the goods to trump the Obey supporters then you're a golden mile off course

 

 
Quote    Reply

gf0012-aust    oops   6/23/2009 11:51:20 PM



jf , with all your respect , you are fighting for a lost cause .

I believe that the bloke (Inouye) has excellent insides .

Cheers

stop trolling. what lost cause?  this is about people throwing in material that is not supported by how things actually work.  Newsarticles do not provide proof of life of evidence on an issue - especially on the F-22.  Would/coulda/should are wishful "gonna" statements that reflect more on enthusiasm and an idealogical commitment to what he wants rather than dealing with the realities of how this works.  What the ferk would Inouye know about costs when USAF cannot provide him with anything unless they get cleared by State in the first place.  The military answers to civilian authority on these issues.  Even Lockmart or Boeing cannot give a price unless cleared by State first.  Whats the basis of the quote?  Again, Japanese through life support costs are established differently to the US.  What baseline figure would they use etc etc.....  
There are legal issues.  what they can and cannot do.  who can talk to who is actually governed by State - not by a congressman trying to curry votes in his electoriate.
Having been part of ITARs discussions I'd hazard a guess that I've got more of a clue than a few on here.  
facts trump belief every time.  if you think that Inouye has the goods to trump the Obey supporters then you're a golden mile off course

 
Quote    Reply
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12   NEXT



StrategyWorld.com© 1998 - 2009StrategyWorld.com. All rights Reserved. StrategyWorld.com, StrategyPage.com, FYEO, For Your Eyes Only and Al Nofi's CIC are all trademarks of StrategyWorld.com Privacy Policy