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Subject: USAF CoS Prefers F-35, UAS and NGB. Also say USAF has enough TACAIR capability
DarthAmerica    5/27/2009 10:45:26 PM
U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff Norton Schwartz said increasing production rates for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and developing the next-generation bomber are at the top of his wish list of projects to fund if the service had more money.

SOURCE:
h*tp://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=aerospacedaily&id=news/SCHWARTZ052009.xml&headline=Schwartz%20Wish%20List:%20Boost%20F-35,%20Plan%20NGB


Testifying before the House Armed Services Committee on the Air Force?s $160.5 billion fiscal 2010 budget request May 19, Schwartz said service leaders felt they had enough tactical aircraft capability despite Defense Secretary Robert Gates? plans to halt F-22 Raptor procurement at 187 aircraft.

The Air Force chief said the service?s leadership believed it was a ?prudent opportunity to accelerate the retirement of older aircraft.? The FY ?10 budget calls for retiring 250 F-15s, F-16s and A-10s, enabling the Air Force to redistribute more than $3.5 billion over the next six years to modernize combat air forces into a ?smaller but more capable force,? Schwartz and Air Force Secretary Michael Donley told lawmakers in joint written testimony.

Schwartz did say more money would make it easier and faster to upgrade remaining legacy aircraft and make modifications to the F-22 until the F-35 starts rolling off the line in large numbers.

Schwartz said the Air Force would like to see F-35 production boosted to at least 80 aircraft and perhaps as many as 110 per year before the F-16s start retiring in large numbers.

Committee members, including Chairman Ike Skelton (D-Mo.) and Rep. John McHugh (N.Y.), the senior Republican on the panel, worried about producing and flying an aircraft while it was still being tested.

Donley conceded budget constraints compelled the Air Force to make some difficult calls. If there was more money ?we might have made some different choices,? Schwartz added. But both leaders insisted the Air Force was not short-changing itself.

The chief of staff said his wish list also included developing plans for the future long-range strike capability. ?We need, through the QDR [Quadrennial Defense Review] and the NPR [Nuclear Posture Review] to get our secretary of defense comfortable with the parameters of what we propose for that platform.?

Gates canceled funding for a next-generation bomber study, which Schwartz said was of concern to the Air Force ?Once we get him comfortable with the parameters ? range, payload, manned, unmanned, nuclear, non-nuclear, low observable, very low observable ? then we need to proceed aggressively with that program.?

Schwartz said the Air Force also needs to explore using additional automation in unmanned aerial systems (UAS) to reduce manpower. He noted that currently one crew operates a single UAS.
 
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mustang22       5/28/2009 9:49:41 AM







Testifying before the House Armed Services Committee on the Air Force?s $160.5 billion fiscal 2010 budget request May 19, Schwartz said service leaders felt they had enough tactical aircraft capability despite Defense Secretary Robert Gates? plans to halt F-22 Raptor procurement at 187 aircraft.







The Air Force chief said the service?s leadership believed it was a ?prudent opportunity to accelerate the retirement of older aircraft.? The FY ?10 budget calls for retiring 250 F-15s, F-16s and A-10s, enabling the Air Force to redistribute more than $3.5 billion over the next six years to modernize combat air forces into a ?smaller but more capable force,? Schwartz and Air Force Secretary Michael Donley told lawmakers in joint written testimony.






Anyone know how many A-10s will be left?



They are only retiring 3 A-10's out of the 250 total aircraft AFAIK.




-DA 



Darth,
 
Last I heard there were 356 A-10's still around and all were eventually getting upgraded to A-10C status under the Precision Engagement program along with possible wing replacements to remain in service until 2028. If this has changed I apologize in advance.
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       5/28/2009 11:27:19 AM
Mustang,

I haven't looked at the overall A-10 strength but what you say makes sense considering that OIF and OEF still represent long term commitments and trends are biased towards the A-10s capabilities. The 3 they are retiring are probably worn out or battle damaged hangar queens.

Just as long as they keep enough to fight in 2018 post Judgement Day Resistance Air Force...;) 

-DA 
 
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Herald12345    Well I read that and I was not amused.   5/28/2009 11:32:38 AM
A couple of things. First, I'm not interested in debating the vagaries of congressional funding practices. You should post something in the United States board about that. My intent is to discuss this within the context of the United States Air Force and the military decision-making process. When I said retirement of the 250 legacy fighters would pay roughly 25% of the initial joint strike fighter procurement of up to 80, I was referring to the $3.5 billion in savings mentioned in the article. Lastly, the congressional budgeting process, has nothing to do with logistics and the context in which we are speaking.
 
This is what I mean, when I look upon some comments I read with absolute scorn.
 
But let's look at a few preliminaries.
 
When I looked at the Youtube reality iffered of the X-45/X-47 demos I noted the massive telemetry and GCS support required just to fly around TWO robots. I wasn't happy about the three way and four way multiple links I saw from the control van that was necessary to support a two bird flught. Those flights were not that long ago so I don't think much has improved about that MESS.
 
Then there was the Cormorant offering. I am well conversant with the effect of salt water on jet engines and missile aeroshells, so you can imagine how very happy THAT concept made me. I was wondering also at the stupidity of a sub trying to recover an aircraft (noisy procedure as well as complex) in a near coast local situation in shallow water after an enemy has trackbacked the drone to splashdown  An Ohio is HUGE and rather obvious in a near surface condition. One would expect that the LockMart concept bunglers had thought about that, when they pitched this dumb idea to the Navy.
 
Sabre concept is reinventing the wheel with a vengeance. Gee what a neat idea. we'll sell a trihull to the USAF and.....
 
KISS. The geometry of the aeroshell offered is overly complex, large and CLUMSY, and unnecessary to a split conformal pallet UAS. Build it as a boomerang liftbody with a truss box center and be done with it.
 
So much for the "concepts" and why technically they don't work, so let's get back to Congress.
 
To build an aircraft, Congress must fund it. To supply the jet engines, to supply the mechanics, pilots, fuel, AMARC depot parts for the aging air fleet, authorize bases, find and fund the resources and manufacturers, find the endusers, and even the TARGETS, CONGRESS has to decide on money and give permission. Not a dollar is spent without the enabling legislation to allow it..
 
Congress has nothing to do with logistics?
 
 
 
Now then.....................
 
Do we have a new definition for that which is obtuse, and ignorant of the actual procurement process? Do we have a new definition of ignorant as in "no concept as to how things actually work in the US government"?
 

Dodd Rallies to Union's Side to Oppose F-22 Budget Cuts

The Connecticut Democrat met Thursday with the Hartford chapter of the machinists' union that would take a big hit under Defense Secretary Robert Gates' call to halt production of the F-22 jet. 

Facing a potentially tough election in 2010, Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd rallied Thursday to the side of union members in his state whose jobs are at risk under an Obama administration budget proposal. 

"I'm here today to tell you that I'll do everything I can ... to make our case to our colleagues. That is where the final defense will be for this program," Dodd told members of the Hartford chapter of the International Association of Machinists. 

The group would take a big hit under Defense Secretary Robert Gates' budget proposal, which calls for halting production of the F-22 jet -- the jet's engines are made in Connecticut. 

But Dodd, along with Connecticut Rep. John Larson, met with union members Thursday to assure them they'd battle Gates over the issue. Dodd has fought before to save the F-22 program, under both Republican and Democratic administrations, and he said Thursday that party distinction doesn't matter to him at a time when his constituents are worried about keeping food on the table. 

"I'd much rather have the secretary on my side, but we've beaten him in the past and we'll beat them this time as well," Dodd said. 

The tough talk came after Dodd heard the concerns of the union. 

"We're very concerned the job base for aerospace would take a blow on this," said Frank Larkin, spokesman for the International Association of Machinists. 

He said ending F-22 production would threaten up to 3,000 jobs in Connecticut, and 25,000 nationwide, with many of those job losses affecting his union members. Though the jets are mainly produced in Texas and Georgia, the engines are produced at Pratt & Whitney in Middletown, Conn. 

This puts Dodd, a powerful Democrat on Capitol Hill, in a tight spot. Though he is a President Obama ally in a position to be a key cheerleader for his budget proposals, Dodd's poll numbers are at historic lows with an election coming up next year. 

Dodd sided with the workers and opposed the F-22 proposal early this week. He co-signed a letter to Obama with other members of the state delegation Tuesday objecting to Gates' proposal and calling for Congress to "fully fund" the F-22s. 

"Additional F-22 Raptors are critical to maintaining America's security in the face of new threats," the letter said. "Further, terminating the F-22 will seriously erode our industrial base, leaving our nation with significantly reduced capability to produce advanced fighter aircraft.

"One of our greatest national assets is our highly-skilled and innovative workforce, personified by the thousands of working men and women in Connecticut that maintain America's continued superiority in aerospace," the letter added. 

The letter echoed a union argument, claiming Gates' simultaneous proposal to drastically increase production of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter would take too long -- and many jobs would disappear in the period it takes for the F-35 to reach the level of F-22 production. 

"These kind of skills are not as easy to bring back once you lose them," Larkin said. 

Gates called for F-22 production to stop at 187 jets, which the military has almost reached. The jets cost $140 million a piece, and Gates has called for defense funding to be directed toward more practical military efforts. 

But Dodd, one of many lawmakers objecting to Gates' budget over potential job loss, must be mindful of union concerns at a time when his Senate seat looks up for grabs. 

He's suffered most recently from a perception that he eased the way for bailed-out American International Group to pay huge bonuses to its employees -- since he stuck a provision in the stimulus bill, at the Treasury's request, exempting companies like AIG from certain pay restrictions. 

A recent poll showed Dodd trailing several potential Republican challengers in the 2010 Senate race. The survey, for instance, showed Dodd trailing former U.S. Rep. Rob Simmons, an announced rival, 50 to 34 percent. 

The survey showed just 33 percent of Connecticut voters approve of the job Dodd is doing in the Senate. 

Dodd's even got a primary challenger. Roger Pearson, a Democrat from Greenwich, Conn., told a Hartford Courant columnist last week that he has formed a committee to explore a run for his party's 2010 nomination. 

Larkin had no comment on how the F-22 issue could affect Dodd politically if he does not give workers in his state his full support. 

"Clearly he needs to be attuned to it as the sitting senator -- with these jobs in his district," Larkin said. 

FOXNews.com's Judson Berger and FOX News' Shannon Bream contributed to this report.

That is one of 535 variables.

You've seen this before:

 

Liar! Liar! Obama's Secretary of War (crossposted from BAR)

Wed, 12/03/2008 - 1:03pm — brucedixon

Until 1947, the United States habitually told the truth about at least one thing. The job title of the Pentagon's highest ranking civilian was the Secretary of War. But the recent slaughter of tens of millions in the Second World War had given the Pentagon's real function a bad name. So Democrat Harry Truman rebranded the Department of War, naming it the Department of Defense. From that day, the Secretary of War became the Secretary of Defense. War plants, war expenditures and bloodthirsty war industries became more benign-sounding defense plants, the defense expenditures and the patriotic defense industry.

Today, with less than 5% of the world's population, the US outspends the other 95% of the planet combined on things military, including a network of more than 725 bases in a hundred foreign countries. The bucks that pay for US Marines in Somalia, for B-52s in the Indian Ocean, nuclear-armed fleets in the Persian Gulf and much more don't come out of any imperial war budget. They're part of the national defense budget.

In that spirit, the president-elect has named what the media are calling his ?national defense team?. The new Secretary of War is the same as the old one. He'll be Robert Gates, a Reaganite and Bush family operative who has headed the Department of War since 2006.

If this were a just society, rather than looking at another year or two in the president's cabinet, Robert Gates would be well into serving a long stretch for war crimes and lying to Congress. It's really that serious. When officials in the CIA and other intelligence agencies, or high ranking military and civilian suits at the Pentagon lie to us, it's not in the same league as a big city mayor fibbing about text messages on his cell phone or how some contract was awarded. When War Department and intelligence officials in and out of uniform lie, it's about who and how many are, have been, or will be killed. They lie about why they died or will die, and at whose hands. They aren't above lying about contracts either.

Robert Gates has been lying about matters of life, death and empire for a long time. A National Security Administration staffer in the Carter administration, Gates appears to have been involved in the October Surprise, helping delay the release of US hostages by Iran in order to damage the re-election chances of Jimmy Carter in 1980. When Reagan's campaign manager William Casey was tapped to head the CIA, Robert Gates was part of the new team. Casey promoted Gates to head of CIA's analytical division and later to deputy CIA director because of his willingness to embellish and fabricate intelligence saying what policymakers wanted to hear. In a recent Baltimore Sun article worth reading in its entirety, Robert Parry quotes former CIA analyst Melvin Goodman as saying

?Gates consistently told his analysts to make sure never to ?stick your finger in the eye of the policymaker.

?It didn?t take long for the winds of politicization to blow through the halls of CIA headquarters at Langley, Virginia.

?Bill Casey and Bob Gates guided the first institutionalized ?cooking of the books? at the CIA in the 1980s, with a particular emphasis on tailoring intelligence dealing with the Soviet Union, Central America, and Southwest Asia,' Goodman wrote.

?Casey?s first NIE [National Intelligence Estimate] as CIA director, dealing with the Soviet Union and international terrorism, became an exercise in politicization. Casey and Gates pushed this line in order to justify more U.S. covert action in the Third World.

?In 1985, they ordered an intelligence assessment of a supposed Soviet plot against the Pope, hoping to produce a document that would undermine Secretary of State [George] Shultz?s efforts to improve relations with Moscow. The CIA also produced an NIE in 1985 that was designed to produce an intelligence rationale for arms sales to Iran.?

It's pretty certain that Robert Gates has lied each and every time he has been sworn in before Congress. His lies have cost the lives of many tens of thousands, and obscured the reasons for their deaths. When Ronald Reagan declared that Nicaragua, a country with the population of Philadelphia (minus the suburbs) and fewer than two functioning elevators constituted a military threat to the US, this was the work of Robert Gates. The US intervention in Central America cost at least 30,000 lives in Nicaragua alone. Gates was also at the center of US provision of arms and intelligence to both Iraq and Iran as they fought a seven year war that killed two million people. He orchestrated intelligence reports that deliberately exaggerated Soviet military expenditures and threat posture to justify Reagan's rant about meeting the menace of the ?Evil Empire? and his unheard of increase in US War Department spending. After serving as CIA director under the first president Bush in 1991 where he remained well into the Clinton administration.

When congressional Democrats in 1993 refused to pursue investigations of Iran-contra and other off-the-books intelligence operations Gates must have breathed a sigh of relief. He remained at CIA until well into Clinton's first year, and eventually sought the help of the Bush family in getting named president of Texas A&M.

The second Bush administration asked Gates to serve on its Iraq Study Commission, which advocated permanent bases, the privatization of Iraqi oil, and the maintenance of tens of thousands of US troops in-country for the foreseeable future. From there, Gates was named deputy, and eventually successor to Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of War. As late as last year, when Alan Greenspan admitted what everybody has always known, that the Iraq war was about the oil, stupid, Gates ran to the press to say:

?I know the same allegation was made about the Gulf War in 1991, and I just don't believe it's true."

"I think that it's really about stability in the Gulf. It's about rogue regimes trying to develop weapons of mass destruction. It's about aggressive dictators," Gates said.

"After all, Saddam Hussein launched wars against several of his neighbors," Gates said. "He was trying to develop weapons of mass destruction."

Sure he's lying. But it's supposed to be OK. Robert Gates is, after all, a lifetime member of the nation's bipartisan foreign policy elite. He could have been just following orders, and his orders at the time were to protect his boss George Bush. Although he took sides against his boss Jimmy Carter back in the day, maybe Gates has learned his lesson. Maybe now the Secretary of War will lie to us with his old Reagan-era enthusiasm on behalf of his new boss Barack Obama. Or maybe not. The question is, whether Robert Gates is lying for his current, his past or his future bosses, as long as his lips are moving in public, who's the winner? Not peace, not democracy. Not change, and certainly not the legacy of Dr. King, whose mantle Barack Obama dons at every opportune moment.

Not a few Obama supporters are wringing their hands at the selection of Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State. The Secretary of State, according to its own web site, has fewer than 5,000 employees. But the Department of War employs more than two million uniformed personnel, hundreds of thousands of civilians, an undisclosed six figure number of armed mercenaries, and thousands of contractors with millions more employees. The Pentagon disposes of tens or hundreds of billions in secret budgets which are accountable to nobody, not even Congress, and it fields at least half a dozen intelligence agencies, along with a far-flung network of secret prisons and torturers to staff them. It's not hard to see where the real power is, and where it will remain despite the new administration's promise of ?change?. The only question remaining is how this vast, unaccountable and fundamentally anti-democratic machinery will be employed by the new administration. Here's a clue.

Millions of Barack Obama's voters are under the impression that he will speedily withdraw US troops from Iraq. For them, the appointment of Robert Gates is not a good sign, but it is consistent with the gap between what Obama's most ardent supporters persuade themselves that they hear, and what the president-elect and his advisors have actually said all along. As the New York Times admitted last week.

?...While Mr. Obama?s most heartfelt supporters in the antiwar movement may have heard ?end the war? as a promise to end the American troop presence in Iraq in 16 months, the president-elect has spoken only of a timeline for withdrawing combat troops, not all American forces."

Fifteen American combat brigades are in Iraq, but the total number of American troops there amounts to the equivalent of more than 50 brigades, including forces there on missions to support, supply, transport, protect and care for the combat forces, and train and support the Iraqi security forces, which would be expected to continue at least through 2011...

Some Army planners predict that 30,000 to 50,000 — and as many as 70,000 — American troops will remain in support and training missions well into late 2011, and beyond, should the Iraqis invite them.

Pegging the US force in Iraq at 50 brigades leaves out a nearly equivalent number of mercenaries. If their number is only half that of US uniformed troops, we're looking at the equivalent of 75 brigades. President-elect Obama pledges to withdraw 15 of these, and only if conditions permit, if the Iraqis ?step up?, if commanders on the ground think it's wise, and so on.

Clearly there will have to be a lot more lies told before this is over. Perhaps the president-elect believes he needs a brazen and proficient lying bureaucrat at the War Department. But is this what the American people need? Is this what they voted for?

Journalist I.F. Stone reminded us a half century ago that ?all governments lie?. But chances are, he didn't mean this the way some of the president-elect's supporters will, as a reason to excuse rather than oppose whatever lies our First Black President and his appointees are inclined to tell us --- for our own good, of course. If we still have principles, souls and backbones of our own, we must always question and we can never excuse lies told us for the sake of empire, no matter who tells them.

If any glimmer of an independent movement for peace and justice still exists, it's time for us to engage in our own rebranding exercise. Activists who aim to carry on the work of Dr. King and the movement he led must take the lead in de-legitimizing the institutions that exist to lie and deceive us along with their functionaries. It'll be easy. All we have to do is tell the truth, and demand the truth from our government. As a beginning, we should insist on calling Mr. Robert Gates exactly what he is in all our conversations, our articles, emails and blogs, our ordinary public and private discourse. He is the Secretary of War,. a bloodstained Reaganite hack, and career liar.

Atlanta-based Bruce Dixon is zumbi50, and managing editor at Black Agenda Report and can be reached at bruce.dixon(at)blackagendareport.com. This was published December 3, 2008 at www.blackagendareport.com

Shrug. He's a no good apparatchik.

That's another variable.
 
 
Thu November 9, 2006 12:00 AM PST

WASHINGTON—While Donald Rumsfeld was Ronald Reagan?s errand boy to Saddam Hussein in the mid-1980s, Robert Gates, the man named yesterday to succeed him as Secretary of Defense, was at the very heart of the American intelligence apparatus, actively planning and carrying out covert operations in Central America and the Middle East.

Gates, a 26-year CIA veteran and the agency?s director between 1991 and 1993, has long been accused of undermining competent, unbiased intelligence analysis at the agency during his tenure, opening the way for its role in partisan politics, a reality brought to the fore again as the Bush administration made its flawed and phony case for war with Iraq. Gates was a high official at the CIA at a time when the U.S. intelligence community experienced one of its most humiliating debacles: the failure to predict the disintegration of the Soviet Union. Instead, under CIA director William Casey the U.S. concocted evidence showing the expansion of Reagan?s "evil empire."

Casey and his protégé Gates were fervent Cold Warriors. On December 14, 1984, in a five page memorandum for then Director of Intelligence Casey, Gates, then serving as deputy director of intelligence, set forth his views: "It is time to talk absolutely straight about Nicaragua," the memo begins. "The Nicaraguan regime is steadily moving toward consolidation of a Marxist-Leninist government, and the establishment of a permanent and well-armed ally of the Soviet Union and Cuba on the mainland of the western hemisphere. Its avowed aim is to spread further revolution in the Americas."

Gates goes on to say this is an "unacceptable" course, arguing that the U.S. should do everything "in its power short of invasion to put that regime out." Hopes of causing that regime to reform itself for a more pluralistic government are "essentially silly and hopeless," he wrote. (The ironic upshot of this sort of thinking can be found in the recent election of the former Sandanista leader Daniel Ortega as president of Nicaragua.)

Nicaragua wasn't the only place Gates wanted to take action. In 1985, sounding very much like one of today?s neoconservative hawks, the then head of intelligence analysis at the CIA drafted a plan for a joint U.S.-Egyptian military operation to invade Libya, overthrow Col. Muamar Ghaddafi, and "redraw the map of North Africa." On the basis of this idea, CIA Director Casey, sometimes said to be the man who invented Gates, ordered up a list of Libyan targets and the National Security Council developed a plan to have Egypt attack Libya with U.S. air support and seize half the country. The Joint Chiefs drew up plans for a military operation involving 90,000 troops. Alarmed, the State Department subsequently succeeded in downsizing Gates proposal to "contingency" status.

According to Robert Parry, a reporter who has closely tracked this period in the CIA?s history, during this time the Reagan administration was "pressing the CIA to adopt an analysis that accepted right-wing media reports pinning European terrorism on the Soviets. The CIA analysts knew that these charges were false, in part because they were based on 'black' or false propaganda that the CIA itself had been planting in the European media. But the 'politicization' tide was strong." And Gates, he writes, led an effort to implicate the Soviets in the assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II. "In 1985, Gates closeted a special team to push through another pre-cooked paper arguing that the KGB was behind the 1981 wounding of Pope John Paul II. CIA analysts again knew that the charge was bogus, but could not block the paper from leaving CIA."

Critics have long thought Gates was heavily involved from the very beginning in putting together and implementing the secret Iran-Contra war. In his book, "Firewall: The Iran/Contra conspiracy and Cover-Up," Lawrence E. Walsh, the independent counsel in the Iran-Contra investigation, wrote that he was skeptical of Gates' repeated denials of having been aware or involved with the details of the Iran-Contra operations with Oliver North. According to the National Security Archive's chronology of the day-by-day happenings in Iran-Contra, on October 1, 1985 the CIA?s National Intelligence Officer, Charles Allen, informed then deputy director Gates of his suspicion that funds were being diverted to the Contras. Gates, for his part, has insisted he first learned of the diversion one year later. "Whenever questioned, Gates had always claimed that he had first learned of Allen's concern about the diversion on the day after Eugene Hasenfus was shot down over Nicaragua on October 5, 1986," writes Walsh, referring to the lone survivor on board a CIA cargo plane that was shot down over Nicaragua while on a mission to supply the Contras. "Gates said that he and Allen had then reported this to Casey, who told them that he had just received much the same information from another source."

In blunt terms, Walsh thought Gates was a liar. It was only for a lack of evidence that he eventually gave up trying to indict him.

In November 1991, years after Iran-Contra messily unraveled, the Senate deliberated on the nomination of Gates to succeed William H. Webster as the next director of Central Intelligence. Democrats, including former Senator Tom Daschle, Jay Rockefeller, and the late Paul Wellstone spoke forcefully, vowing to vote against the nominee. "Robert Gates became the Deputy Director of the CIA in April, 1986, after a meteoric rise in the Agency," Wellstone said. "His confirmation hearings provided ample and credible evidence that, as the Deputy Director, he repeatedly skewed intelligence to promote the world view of his mentor and his boss, William Casey. Analysts specializing in the Soviet Union, Latin America, Africa, and scientific affairs, came forward--some at risk to their careers in the agency--to provide examples. The record further strongly suggests that Robert Gates supported--passively or actively--terribly misguided or illegal covert operations, including the diversion of funds to the Nicaraguan Contras obtained through the sale of arms to Iran. He also had a hand in hiding some of the details of these covert operations from Congress. Lastly, the record showed that Robert Gates crossed the line from independent intelligence-gathering into high-profile policymaking when he gave speeches advocating an unyielding line toward the Soviet Union and deployment of a star wars missile defense system."

During the same debate, Daschle said: "My questions regarding whether or not Robert Gates participated in the politicization of intelligence culminate in my deep concern about what we can expect from Robert Gates if he is confirmed as the next Director of Central Intelligence." He continued, "Again, I ask my colleagues, if Robert Gates cooked the books to advocate the ideological position of the administration while serving as Deputy Director for Intelligence and Deputy Director of Central Intelligence, is it possible that U.S. intelligence under his guidance will continue to politicize intelligence? My answer is, 'We cannot afford to take that chance.'"

Gates, who is a member of the Iraq Study Group, which is preparing an assessment of the situation on Iraq that may well inform the nation?s policy going forward, has been hailed as the man who may bring order to a disastrously waged war. His nomination, some say, indicates a policy shift that is already in motion. Many of the nation?s problems now stem from the fact that politics and ideology have seeped into nearly every crevice of the federal bureaucracy. And Congress must now decide whether it can afford to take another chance on Robert Gates.

Now I don't know about the rest of you, but as I've said repeatedly about thos man, he's no more qualified to give an HONEST argument than some of the posters here are qualified to tell me about why 183 F-22s are enough to provode an air defense when I know 283 is more like the nimber needed. As said before, The F-22 is NOT IDEAL as a missile shover and PACRIM patroller, bit it is the BEST we have now building. Since I am a pessimist, and I don't belueve we will fund the $50 billion dollar new ten hour bomber and the $50 billion  dollar UAS program, I tend to believe that we face a  "bird in the hand situation" where we fund what we can afford and what I know will work ubtil the munitions come on line that make nonsense of our enemues' plans and not pie in the sky dreams and delusions.
 
There will be pressure to cut Sparkie to save money, as soon as the Raptor dies. Bet on THAT.
 
Herald


 
       
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

mustang22       5/28/2009 1:06:06 PM

Mustang,




I haven't looked at the overall A-10 strength but what you say makes sense considering that OIF and OEF still represent long term commitments and trends are biased towards the A-10s capabilities. The 3 they are retiring are probably worn out or battle damaged hangar queens.




Just as long as they keep enough to fight in 2018 post Judgement Day Resistance Air Force...;) 




-DA 

Hopefully they will get more powerful engines so they can outrun the HK's!!
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    ATTN: SysOP   5/28/2009 1:38:13 PM

Now I don't know about the rest of you, but as I've said repeatedly about thos man, he's no more qualified to give an HONEST argument than some of the posters here are qualified to tell me about why 183 F-22s are enough to provode an air defense when I know 283 is more like the nimber needed. As said before, The F-22 is NOT IDEAL as a missile shover and PACRIM patroller, bit it is the BEST we have now building. Since I am a pessimist, and I don't belueve we will fund the $50 billion dollar new ten hour bomber and the $50 billion  dollar UAS program, I tend to believe that we face a  "bird in the hand situation" where we fund what we can afford and what I know will work ubtil the munitions come on line that make nonsense of our enemues' plans and not pie in the sky dreams and delusions.

There will be pressure to cut Sparkie to save money, as soon as the Raptor dies. Bet on THAT.
Herald


Herald,
 
As DJim, JFKY, Warpig, Rocky and SysOps have told you, get this stupid who's qualified bullcrap out of our threads. YOU ARE DISQUALIFYING YOURSELF by virtue of the fact that you seem to be unable to follow the rules here. Following SP's posted forum rules qualifies anybody to post whatever the hell they want. In fact, the fact that you suggested things as ignorant to reality as giving civilian merchant ships missiles and rockets to illegally shoot at Somali Fishermen is all the proof anybody needs to justify that you do not understand as much about military affairs as you think you do. You not knowing that touch screens are in cockpits of fighters suggest that your knowledge of fighters and aircraft is just as wanting as anyone else. You not knowing that the MSR DOES NOT go through Basra shows that you don't know as much as you think you do about logistics. Your inability to respect forum rules or admit to being wrong is a character flaw as well. Finally, your continuous vitriol and insulting that you heap on others and the POTUS/SecDef clearly demonstrate that it it completely impossible to have any kind of objective discussion in threads where you are present. PLEASE DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD ANYMORE IF YOU INTEND TO CONTINUE TO PERSONALLY ATTACK ME.

All I'm trying to do is talk to people about things that interest other military aviation enthusiast. If that isn't your intent leave us alone and start your own threads. For the benefit of others. I'll post this link to dispel the incorrect assertion that a "10 hour bomber" will cost 50 billion.


-DA 






 

       


 

 

 


 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       5/28/2009 1:50:26 PM

Mustang,

I haven't looked at the overall A-10 strength but what you say makes sense considering that OIF and OEF still represent long term commitments and trends are biased towards the A-10s capabilities. The 3 they are retiring are probably worn out or battle damaged hangar queens.


Just as long as they keep enough to fight in 2018 post Judgement Day Resistance Air Force...;) 

-DA 

Hopefully they will get more powerful engines so they can outrun the HK's!!
 
Just give them AIM-9X and HMS and the HK is toast!

-DA 



 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       5/28/2009 1:54:39 PM

The Air Force is in the initial stages of formalizing a new bomber aircraft

acquisition program. This program, in accordance with Department of Defense

(DOD) and congressional mandates, is to produce a new long-range strike aircraft to

be operational by 2018. Air Force plans for acquiring a new bomber aircraft have

been accelerated by about 20 years from earlier projections because of a combination

of the Air Force?s desire to retire a portion of its B-52 fleet and DOD?s perception

of a developing ?bomber capability gap.?

Defense analysts have estimated that it will

cost between $8 billion and $10 billion to develop a new bomber using current or

?soon-to-mature? technologies.

 
Quote    Reply

EvilFishy       5/28/2009 1:56:14 PM
 ---DA---First, I'm not interested in debating the vagaries of congressional funding practices. ---Then there is no need to even bother discussing aircraft of any type past your own personal fantasies.

It does not matter what it can do either on paper or in the air; if you do not have the cash to buy it, it might as well not exist.

This actually HURTS your argument for FEWER F-22s.

---DA---You should post something in the United States board about that. My intent is to discuss this within the context of the United States Air Force and the military decision-making process.---

The United States Air Force and the military decision making process is intimately linked with Congressional appropriations. You cannot separate the two for reasons I have already listed. Ergo, discussing them here is just as relevant as discussing them in another board.

---DA---When I said retirement of the 250 legacy fighters would pay roughly 25% of the initial joint strike fighter procurement of up to 80, I was referring to the $3.5 billion in savings mentioned in the article.---

Noted but that still leaves 80 aircraft replacing how many hundreds?

---DA---Lastly, the congressional budgeting process, has nothing to do with logistics and the context in which we are speaking.---

No money, no M16s.

No money, no F-22s.

No money, no F-35s.

No money, no WATER.

No money, no FOOD.

These things and the money used to purchase them come from the Constitutional authority delegated to the Congress and NO OTHER BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.

This is LOGISTICS pure and simple Darth.

 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       5/28/2009 2:05:21 PM
A case for the NGB, to be unmanned. HUMAN FACTORS. Go about 3 Min and 15 Sec into this video and listen to what a fighter pilot thinks about flying missions that last a long time...

link width="425" height="344">  

This same principle applies to a new USAF bomber.

-DA

 
 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       5/28/2009 2:14:19 PM

This is LOGISTICS pure and simple Darth.



No, it's spin EF. I said I didn't want to discuss congress in the CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD. As in I'f Congress decides to give ACORN 99% of the Federal Budget and the DoD 1%, then I'm only interested in talking about how the DoD can make best use of the 1% regardless of WHY Congress does that. If you want to discuss that Congress should be providing more or less funds then please start a new thread. My suggestion is "How much money should Congress allocate to Defense vs other priorities." Try it and I'm sure many would be interested. Otherwise please don't derail this thread please. Thanks.

As a reminder and for your convenience, this thread is about the USAF CoS preferring F-35, UAS and NGB. And in fact his list of "unfunded" priorities, AS IN THINGS HE WANTS BUT CONGRESS HASN'T FUNDED, the F-22 is not on that list.

-DA 
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    As I pointed out.   5/28/2009 2:41:13 PM



Now I don't know about the rest of you, but as I've said repeatedly about this man, he's no more qualified to give an HONEST argument than some of the posters here are qualified to tell me about why 183 F-22s are enough to provide an air defense when I know 283 is more like the number needed. As said before, The F-22 is NOT IDEAL as a missile shover and PACRIM patroller, but it is the BEST we have now building. Since I am a pessimist, and I don't believe we will fund the $50 billion dollar new ten hour bomber and the $50 billion  dollar UAS program, I tend to believe that we face a  "bird in the hand situation" where we fund what we can afford and what I know will work until the munitions come on line that make nonsense of our enemues' plans and not pie in the sky dreams and delusions.


There will be pressure to cut Sparkie to save money, as soon as the Raptor dies. Bet on THAT.

Herald








Herald,

 

As DJim, JFKY, Warpig, Rocky and SysOps have told you, get this stupid who's qualified bullcrap out of our threads. YOU ARE DISQUALIFYING YOURSELF by virtue of the fact that you seem to be unable to follow the rules here. Following SP's posted forum rules qualifies anybody to post whatever the hell they want. In fact, the fact that you suggested things as ignorant to reality as giving civilian merchant ships missiles and rockets to illegally shoot at Somali Fishermen is all the proof anybody needs to justify that you do not understand as much about military affairs as you think you do. You not knowing that touch screens are in cockpits of fighters suggest that your knowledge of fighters and aircraft is just as wanting as anyone else. You not knowing that the MSR DOES NOT go through Basra shows that you don't know as much as you think you do about logistics. Your inability to respect forum rules or admit to being wrong is a character flaw as well. Finally, your continuous vitriol and insulting that you heap on others and the POTUS/SecDef clearly demonstrate that it it completely impossible to have any kind of objective discussion in threads where you are present. PLEASE DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD ANYMORE IF YOU INTEND TO CONTINUE TO PERSONALLY ATTACK ME.




All I'm trying to do is talk to people about things that interest other military aviation enthusiast. If that isn't your intent leave us alone and start your own threads. For the benefit of others. I'll post this link to dispel the incorrect assertion that a "10 hour bomber" will cost 50 billion.








-DA 


















 



       






 



 



 







 
 $10 billion?  Since its likely that the new bomber will cost per unit at least TWICE to THREE times what a Sparky or an F-22 costs and that the USAF wants at least 100 units by that study what is that program cost again?
 
100 aircraft at $100 million is $10 billion dollars.
100 aircraft at $200 million is $20 billion dollars.
100 aircraft at $300 million is $30 billion dollars
 
From the report:
 
 
How Much Will the Next Generation Bomber Cost?
Because the Air Force does not have a formal proposal out for the next
generation bomber, it is difficult to determine the potential cost of the program.
What has been announced is the Air Force?s plan to spend at least $1.6 billion
through 2011 on the future bomber program. However, one analyst notes that it is
going to take between $8 billion and $10 billion to develop the future aircraft
.71 As
for actual aircraft cost, it will be highly dependent on the number of aircraft procured.
 
As is with all of your complaints, poster, I note the errors and lay out the FACTS of the case. That you take it as a a personal attack should tell YOU something about your BIAS and the definition of "qualified" which in thbis case is again proved by evidence.
 
Opinion is opinion. When I give one, it is clear and I often label it as such. But when I state a fact, it is supplemented by EVIDENCE.
 
The evidence poster you are free to try to negate. Good luck with that since you have a long history of repeated failures. And don't think this is personal. I've said elsewhere that I point out errors (including my own) and show why.
 
One more thing. Next time you try to quote facts and figures, argue science, or make an assertion as fact? CITE a reputable source.  
 
Herald

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

EvilFishy       5/28/2009 2:49:45 PM
---DA---No, it's spin EF. I said I didn't want to discuss congress in the CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD.----Your entire thread is budgetary logistics Darth!

Your post: ---U.S. Air Force Chief of Staff Norton Schwartz said increasing production rates for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and developing the next-generation bomber are at the top of his wish list of projects to fund if the service had more money. - Testifying before the House Armed Services Committee on the Air Force?s $160.5 billion fiscal 2010 budget request May 19, Schwartz said service leaders felt they had enough tactical aircraft capability despite Defense Secretary Robert Gates? plans to halt F-22 Raptor procurement at 187 aircraft.---

So you have Air Force personnel testifying before Congress regarding their BUDGET NEEDS and REQUESTS.

Part of your argument against more F-22s is the wish list from unfounded priorities:
---ADDENDUM 5/27/2009 10:50:20 PM F-22 PROCUREMENT NOT IN THE USAF CoS "Wish List" of top unfunded priorities?----

Part of your argument against more F-22s is that the F-35 will come online in the numbers needed to adequately replace the current fleet.

You cannot make that argument for the reasons I have already presented:

1) The F-35 has not had funds allocated so there is no guarantee they will be purchased

2) Even if the F-35 is purchased, because funds are not allocated, there will be a move to limit the purchase order as HAS BEEN THE CASE WITH EVERY AIRCRAFT order I can recall so it is all but certain we will NOT GET the numbers we requested/wanted earlier.

3) The Congress is out of money. Go back and read what I posted earlier.

When you have a congress openly discussing a Valued Added Tax on top of a National Sales Tax on top of a Cap and Trade Tax on top of allowing the Bush era tax cuts to expire, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out the reasons behind this!

They have already cut the DOD budget and if history is any guide you can bank of the fact that Congress will continue to CUT the DOD budget.

Only a complete novice talks aircraft capability with out addressing the funds needed to acquire said aircraft.

 
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica       5/28/2009 2:52:39 PM
Herald,

I'm not talking about the UNIT COST or total program cost of an actual NGB. That is not knowable until specific details about the aircraft are public. I clearly posted that it's Development Cost. And even at $300 million apiece, thats still FAR SHORT by 40% of the $50 billion you suggested earlier. In any event. You haven't discussed any errors made by me. That isn't possible unless you intend to discuss and debate civilly so that you don't end up making assumptions about what I'm saying. Anyway, moving along from discussion about you and I, continue to discuss the topic please and lets move past ANY PAST PERSONAL ISSUES.

-DA  
 
Quote    Reply

warpig       5/28/2009 3:00:17 PM


You cannot make that argument for the reasons I have already presented:


1) The F-35 has not had funds allocated so there is no guarantee they will be purchased


2) Even if the F-35 is purchased, because funds are not allocated, there will be a move to limit the purchase order as HAS BEEN THE CASE WITH EVERY AIRCRAFT order I can recall so it is all but certain we will NOT GET the numbers we requested/wanted earlier.


3) The Congress is out of money. Go back and read what I posted earlier.


When you have a congress openly discussing a Valued Added Tax on top of a National Sales Tax on top of a Cap and Trade Tax on top of allowing the Bush era tax cuts to expire, it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out the reasons behind this!


They have already cut the DOD budget and if history is any guide you can bank of the fact that Congress will continue to CUT the DOD budget.


Only a complete novice talks aircraft capability with out addressing the funds needed to acquire said aircraft.




So if Congress does not fund the ENTIRE $250billion for the entire projected F-35 buy of 2500 aircraft out through 2030+ in THIS YEAR'S budget, then we can not assume they will fund ANY F-35s AT ALL, and in fact you actually appear to be saying that if it's not all paid up front then IT WILL NOT be funded at all later on, either?!?  What multi-year weapon system procurement program ever worked that way?


 
 
Quote    Reply

SpudmanWP       5/28/2009 3:56:10 PM
The VAT tax IS the national sales tax, not "ON TOP OF".
 
Quote    Reply
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