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Subject: B-1R Thoughts and comments...
DarthAmerica    5/13/2009 4:09:14 AM
...just for fun I thought I'd bring this up with the soon to come debate over a new bomber.
 
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DarthAmerica       5/13/2009 4:11:01 AM
Though some might enjoy this...

link width="410" height="341" id="veohFlashPlayer" name="veohFlashPlayer">
Watch B-1R in Animation  |  View More Free Videos Online at Veoh.com



Regards
-DA 
 
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Phaid       5/13/2009 6:17:30 AM
In a hypothetical way, it is a pretty cool idea.  Specifically, I've always been an advocate for the F-22 as a force multiplier in the sense that even unarmed it can target for other platforms, as it does in the video.  A B-1R type platform would work well with that, though I think you would need something even longer ranged than an AIM-120D to really take advantage of it.
 
There's no way the Air Force is going to buy more B-1s of any type, but I expect we could see something similar to this in the future involving the next generation bomber employing JDRADMs this way.
 
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Beazz       5/13/2009 9:06:48 AM

Though some might enjoy this...




link target="_blank">link width="410" height="341" id="veohFlashPlayer" name="veohFlashPlayer">




Watch B-1R in Animation  |  View More Free Videos Online at Veoh.com










Regards

-DA 
 
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Beazz       5/13/2009 3:06:32 PM
Hey DA,
 
The entire hour long show was really good. Why don't ya get the section that showed the F35 in action where it was shown in a2a and a2g as well as how good it is even AFTER it's stealth was compromised. I'm sure the French twins would luv that since they think it's a dog. I'm still trying to figure out why a chase F16 (which wasn't a dog last I heard) has to use AB just to keep up with the F35 in military power? Maybe BW & lil Piggy classify the F16 as a puppy?
 
Beazz
 
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DarthAmerica       5/13/2009 8:02:12 PM

Hey DA,

 

The entire hour long show was really good. Why don't ya get the section that showed the F35 in action where it was shown in a2a and a2g as well as how good it is even AFTER it's stealth was compromised. I'm sure the French twins would luv that since they think it's a dog. I'm still trying to figure out why a chase F16 (which wasn't a dog last I heard) has to use AB just to keep up with the F35 in military power? Maybe BW & lil Piggy classify the F16 as a puppy?

 

Beazz

I only saw that clip. I'd like to see the rest.

-DA 
 
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locutus    Show   5/13/2009 9:07:50 PM
DA,
 
It is a program from the History channel called Dogfights of the Future.
 
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mabie       5/13/2009 9:30:17 PM

In a hypothetical way, it is a pretty cool idea.  Specifically, I've always been an advocate for the F-22 as a force multiplier in the sense that even unarmed it can target for other platforms, as it does in the video.  A B-1R type platform would work well with that, though I think you would need something even longer ranged than an AIM-120D to really take advantage of it.


 

There's no way the Air Force is going to buy more B-1s of any type, but I expect we could see something similar to this in the future involving the next generation bomber employing JDRADMs this way.





Or just substitute half a dozen F-15s for the B-1s.. 
 
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PierreLeGrand    Nice idea   5/13/2009 9:50:59 PM
.....intelligence and situational picture generated by F-22 Raptors cannot be transferred to F-15s, F-16 or AWACS even if both units are participating in the same operation.
As stealth aircraft, F-22s are not equipped with conventional datalinks such as Link-16 which can be easily spotted by enemy SIGINT.
link
 
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Professor Fickle    cheaper!!!! work smarter not harder   5/13/2009 9:51:50 PM
how about a 1960, nuclear tip missile?  (aim 47 Falcon > 0.25 kiloton ) 
 
 ok, ok, ultra small thermo nuclear! (stupid environmentalist )
 
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PierreLeGrand    Nice idea   5/13/2009 9:53:32 PM
But still WAY off reality.
 
 
.....intelligence and situational picture generated by F-22 Raptors cannot be transferred to F-15s, F-16 or AWACS even if both units are participating in the same operation.
As stealth aircraft, F-22s are not equipped with conventional datalinks such as Link-16 which can be easily spotted by enemy SIGINT.
link
 
They upgrade F-22 with a datalink worth its stealth though, i can't see and 120 miles AMRAAM in the near future though and i don't realy like the V shaped fin on the B2, it is an absolute beauty as it is...
 
Regards, PLG
 
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Professor Fickle    cheaper!!!! work smarter not harder   5/13/2009 9:58:13 PM
how about a 1960, nuclear tip missile?  (aim 47 Falcon > 0.25 kiloton ) 
 
 ok, ok, ultra small thermo nuclear! (stupid environmentalist )
 
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Professor Fickle       5/13/2009 10:17:25 PM
 

They upgrade F-22 with a datalink worth its stealth though, i can't see and 120 miles AMRAAM in the near future


 How about a two stage AIM 120D+    like the proposed AAAM aim152 by  GD/Westinghouse :   
 
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DarthAmerica       5/13/2009 11:47:17 PM

.....intelligence and situational picture generated by F-22 Raptors cannot be transferred to F-15s, F-16 or AWACS even if both units are participating in the same operation.

As stealth aircraft, F-22s are not equipped with conventional datalinks such as Link-16 which can be easily spotted by enemy SIGINT.

link target="_blank">link

That would not be the case in that timeframe. By then MADL or similar will be operational.


Additionally, if the F-22 were to use a less stealthy method or even voice. At that point it would only be telling the enemy what they already know. Somebody is up there shooting at his jets, probably F-22/35 and the approximate location. During the Confusion, the B-1R which has a HUGE power and most likely big LPI AESA could detect, track and kill on it's own. So could AESA Super Hornets and Eagles. Once AIM-120 gets 3rd party capability this would be possible with legacy aircraft and F-22. Don't forget "lofting" of AIM-9X. 

Another possibility would be to put the AMRAAMs on Reaper/Aveger or similar HALE UAV or even UCAS and they could loiter after the initial sweep and catch any enemy trying to scramble and take off. That might serve to seriously impair an organized response.

A lot has changed since the 1990s and the latest state of the art in theory should allow for vast increases in the combat effectiveness and lethality of advanced fighters integrated into the network. 

-DA 

 
 
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Professor Fickle       5/14/2009 9:44:08 AM

In a hypothetical way, it is a pretty cool idea.  Specifically, I've always been an advocate for the F-22 as a force multiplier in the sense that even unarmed it can target for other platforms, as it does in the video.  A B-1R type platform would work well with that, though I think you would need something even longer ranged than an AIM-120D to really take advantage of it.


 

There's no way the Air Force is going to buy more B-1s of any type, but I expect we could see something similar to this in the future involving the next generation bomber employing JDRADMs this way.







we talked about an identical concept a wile back, with F/A-22 and B-2 bombers as AMMRAM "trucks" against the North Koreans fighter formations.
 
YUP  back when we use to call it the F/A-22 and not the F-22
and in our scenario, the bomber had internal aim-120d racks, not external crap!
 
hay the B-1A also had a mach 2 top speed, the only difference between the b-1b was a stelthyer air intake and therefore slower mach 1.3 speed at high altitude! 
 
 
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DarthAmerica       5/14/2009 1:04:10 PM

we talked about an identical concept a wile back, with F/A-22 and B-2 bombers as AMMRAM "trucks" against the North Koreans fighter formations.

YUP  back when we use to call it the F/A-22 and not the F-22

and in our scenario, the bomber had internal aim-120d racks, not external crap!

hay the B-1A also had a mach 2 top speed, the only difference between the b-1b was a stelthyer air intake and therefore slower mach 1.3 speed at high altitude! 




Imagine a modern day Operation Bolo.  We do something to get the threat to put the bulk of his fighters up and light up any ground based IADS. Using decoys like MALD, the enemy thinks there is an inbound strike package and scrambles. As he starts to engage and destroy the MALDs, expending both missiles and fuel, the F-22 acting as the sensing platform is passing data to dozens of legacy aircraft that are out of enemy detection range. Or maybe even the B-1B or B-2A are modified to act as firing platforms. And at the right moment, the missile barrage is sent in. In the confusion, Fighters could then move in and finish off survivors while CMs and strike fighters go after IADS and/or air bases.

-DA 
 
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