Here I was trying to find out what you meant. And in what way am I unclear?

 

Also interested about Pakistan in a different context. (post on subject and I will follow.) On that topic, I am a pupil. I've read so much crap and falsehood about that failed state, that anyone with firsthand credible data and viewpoint would be a hole filler in my education.  

 

Herald

 

 

Hmmm, I guess I've been semi-trolling lately as well, trying to pound through his armour or use psychological pressure to dislodge him from here.

Oh well, it's for a good cause. If I've crossed the line of trolling and get suspended or banned I'll save a few hours a week.

I don 't have time to answer everybody , sorry in advance .

French posters on SP spend 95% of their time correcting the various and numerous mistake made by posters who do not know the Rafale and its armory .

 

Sometimes the mistakes are so basic that it forces us to repeat 1000 times the same thing . Exemple : I read that some posters are making a difference in between the EM Mica and the IR Mica . Beside the seeker , there is none . In fact , you unscrew the EM head and you screw an IR head , it is as simple as that : it is the same missile with the same max range of about 80km . As you know , ASRAAM , AIM-9s , Python , Archer , etc , can 't kill a target at more than 30km and in the best case scenario .

 

So why a long range IR missile should be more dangerous than an EM missile ? I shouln 't have to answer that as the reasons are obvious !

To start with , some posters should now that when you 're equipped with active BVR missiles (fire and forget) you do not need to "paint" the adverse fighter with your radar , a quick 'pass' is more than enough to get a missile off the rail . If the opposition is equipped with decent RWR , the thing will go "bleep" for a split second , then nothing after just silence . As a pilot , this is worrying but not too much . Sure , somebody has probably seen you but did not lock you . Unfortunatly for you , a missile is already coming .

Obviously , Pilots nowadays know that a simple "radar pass" is enough to fire an active BVR missile in anger , so the best they have to do is to break straight away just in case . Some other Pilots will wait and see if they get seen again (RWR going "bleep" again) or even wait for the RWR to go berserk because it did spot a fast closing EM missile going "live" . Here time is short , the Pilot should have moved earlier to try not to be in the missile seeker cone when it goes live .

Now , imagine that the BVR missile is an IR missile . You did get a "bleep" from your RWR then nothing . 1.54 minute later , you and your aircraft simply disapear from the radars , you 're gone . You did not even see the thing who killed you .

Then , there is the problem to hide from such missiles , having a RCS of 0.0000000000000001 square meter will not help at all . 

 

The Russians have long range IR missiles and the Chineses , well ...

IR Mica is not alone in the field ...

 

(More later)

 

Cheers . 

 

 

 BW,

 

A lot is going on in the time it takes any missile to fly several tens of km. How is the IR missile being kept aware of that AFTER it leaves the firing platform and BEFORE it has acquired the target? Simply detecting something does not complete the kill chain BW. If IR missiles had that much of an advantage then they would be in much more wide spread use. A long range IR missile is still going to need the aircraft to cue it until the terminal phase with FC quality data otherwise it/s not going to know where to look when it gets there. IRST are not superior in this regard to Radar and certainly don't offer the range or resolution. Also, look at modern stealth aircraft. All of them have comprehensive IR signature management. So the effectiveness against them will also be reduced.

Look at history. F-117s have been flying in the face of IR guided threats for decades. ZERO effectiveness. Why in your mind is this so revolutionary?

 

 

Look at the nose. Nothing is new about that. If you want new...

link width="425" height="344">  

 

-DA

Mica at 80km?  You clearly have zero practical experience whatsoever.  If you did you would know that that is the worst sort of marketing claim, an absolute best case scenario where everything goes right.  Even against an unaware target, a shot like that with a Mica would require a perfect set-up.

 

Although the booster and control section of the Mice IR is the same as the Mice EM, its range is far shorter because it flies a different profile because of the far less capable seeker.  A Mica IR flies a flight profile similar to what an active radar guided missile flies when it is in home on jam mode and has a range similar to that of other IR missiles for that reason.

 

The Mica's booster is not really that much bigger than other IR missiles and the Mica IR's range is only slightly longer than most other next generation IR missiles.

 

Mica, 112 Kg

Python-5, 104Kg

AA-11, 105Kg

Aim-9x, 85Kg

 

The Mica is slightly larger than its competitors, which does impact its agility, but it is not far larger, especially when you consider its relatively heavy casing, control surfaces and warhead.  An 80km shot with a Mica IR is pure fantasy.  France does not have magic pixie dust that allows its missiles to fly twice as far with only a few extra pounds of propellant.

  

 

Rufus , for reasons unknown to you and to most civilians , the USA have been "at War" with France on the economical chessboard since our refusal to endorse GW 2 .

There is no need at all to discuss such internals matters on an open forum . You trust me or not , I do not care ...

 

I tried to show you in the first page of this thread that Pentagon rank France very high for technologies but you refused to read and acknowledge.

On mica

I don 't have time to answer everybody , sorry in advance .

French posters on SP spend 95% of their time correcting the various and numerous mistake made by posters who do not know the Rafale and its armory .

Incompetent posters. (Not restricted to nationality, we have plenty of American BSers on the board just like this poster)  spend  most of their tome posting this type  of CRAP. 92% huh?

Sometimes the mistakes are so basic that it forces us to repeat 1000 times the same thing . Exemple : I read that some posters are making a difference in between the EM Mica and the IR Mica . Beside the seeker , there is none . In fact , you unscrew the EM head and you screw an IR head , it is as simple as that : it is the same missile with the same max range of about 80km . As you know , ASRAAM , AIM-9s , Python , Archer , etc , can 't kill a target at more than 30km and in the best case scenario .

 

So why a long range IR missile should be more dangerous than an EM missile ? I shouln 't have to answer that as the reasons are obvious !

Poster does have to answer because he needs to prove competence.

To start with , some posters should now that when you 're equipped with active BVR missiles (fire and forget) you do not need to "paint" the adverse fighter with your radar , a quick 'pass' is more than enough to get a missile off the rail . If the opposition is equipped with decent RWR , the thing will go "bleep" for a split second , then nothing after just silence . As a pilot , this is worrying but not too much . Sure , somebody has probably seen you but did not lock you . Unfortunatly for you , a missile is already coming .

 

That is so stupid a statement that it is riduculous. Missiles at BVR are corrected to reduce bearing offset error as the missile flys out. The reason is simple.The quickest way to evade a missile kaunched at you is to change vector immediately at as 90 degree an angle to its approach bearing as  you can so that it has to turn to meet. Especially with a crap missile like MICA this bleeds speed through drag, so that the potential energy advantage that the miissile needs (3x jerk) to correct for aircraft final dodge falls rapidly to 1.5x  and this a guaranteed miss. This comes back to corrected point and what the missile sees when the seeker finally snaps on as well. With its boitched RH seeker, the MICA needs to keep the target within its forward  70 degree asrc. If the target evades on a radian of asearch cone base outside that FoV the result is that the missile sees nothing when it arrives. This is true in the MICA case because the RAFALE to MICA update fails and there is no corrective telemetry action to keerp the missile nose POINTED at the changing updated drop window in its rather shallow and narrow drop basket.   The RH seeker on a MICA cannot see beyond 7000 meters. So how will the nissile know where to go for the first 20,000 meters of fly-out in the lob if the RAFALE doesn't TRACK and target position update as the Sukhoi evades?

 

Obviously , Pilots nowadays know that a simple "radar pass" is enough to fire an active BVR missile in anger , so the best they have to do is to break straight away just in case . Some other Pilots will wait and see if they get seen again (RWR going "bleep" again) or even wait for the RWR to go berserk because it did spot a fast closing EM missile going "live" . Here time is short , the Pilot should have moved earlier to try not to be in the missile seeker cone when it goes live .

Now , imagine that the BVR missile is an IR missile . You did get a "bleep" from your RWR then nothing . 1.54 minute later , you and your aircraft simply disapear from the radars , you 're gone . You did not even see the thing who killed you .

Then , there is the problem to hide from such missiles , having a RCS of 0.0000000000000001 square meter will not help at all . 

At twenty kilometers you can be a 747 and hide from a MICA IR  seeker.

The Russians have long range IR missiles and the Chineses , well ..

 

Well no they don't.  They may sell them to third world buffoons, but they don't use them.

IR Mica is not alone in the field ...

Actually as a crap missile it is. The Anab is being withdrawn from service, as those aircraft are retired.

(More later)

 

Cheers .