The manuevers looked beautiful.  I'd say there's no denying that the whole Mirage family are pretty jets.  Of course, "11Gs" is bull... and it's the second time now that you've claimed them.  The first time was bad enough regarding the Rafale.  This time it's just ridiculous.

 

You have to Understand that in France G's are cumulative so if you do a 3 G manuever followed by a 6 G manuever then Dassualt puts out a brochure claiming 9 G manuevers...quite simple actually.

However they don't count negative G manuevers

There are some Rafale's out there now that do 110 G manuevers..LOL

 

 

"http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/6-54840/page2.aspx"

As always it all depends.

 

 

I dunno.  He was easily taking and sustaining 9Gs on some of those turns.  No denying that the Mirage 2000 is a fine aircraft and the AdA have some damn fine pilots (I would even say the majority, after watching them exercise when I lived in Germany).  I'd hate to go up against one.

 

As for that manuever, I would say it would be pretty tough to follow if you were right on the Mirage's butt.  The sudden dive you could compensate for, but not that turn at the end--that would throw you off.  However, I would think that a counter would be either to hose off an IR when he starts the dive, or go high and wait for him to make his turn, then drop in behind him--similar to the high-G yo-yo that F-4 pilots used to use to counter the MiG-17's turn radius.

 

Did you know that missile manufacturers seem to keep the blast radius of their product secret as in such data does not get published / is not available open source?

 

If I had the data I would be able to redo the calculation, with the new data.

So until I get to see extra data, I'll stick to it all depends.

 

 

Sentinel and Arty made some good points and they also obviously agree that the M2000 manoeuver can not be done easily , pulling this trick is not for every fighter .

Of course , the thread is about manoeuvrability . The IR and dogfighting missiles can take care of a hard manoeuvring M2000 if they can 't be jammed , no doubt . The  M2000 will end up as a fireball in the sky and make few holes in the ground , but this is not point of the thread .

Let 's just say it is a cannon only story , ok ?

 

In all accounts , the fighter following the Mirage will be put off and will wander how to comeback to the fight in a decent (?) position . The Mirage did an excellent dogfight trick .

Please post some nice other tricks ;-)

 

Ispose :

""You have to Understand that in France G's are cumulative so if you do a 3 G manuever followed by a 6 G manuever then Dassualt puts out a brochure claiming 9 G manuevers...quite simple actually.

However they don't count negative G manuevers

To be honest , I ' ve never seen the Rafale doing such dive nose first and when I check the negative Gs performance on paper , they both have (M2000 and Rafale) the same rating from Dassault .

So , I called my friend back and asked him if he could loose a Rafale with the trick , he answered me in a "Normand" way : Maybe yes , maybe not ... . He then explained to me that the Rafale roll rate was faster (we know that) and it could probably compensate the M2000 's dive by making an inverted roll but the Rafale would have to slow down because when the M2000 is diving it can loose as much as 150 knots and it is why it can turn such tight 11g turn right after the dive , the Rafale ' s pilot would have to keep an eye on the M2000 right after the fast inverted roll , then make a 11g dive turn to try to follow the Mirage which is not easy to do when you you are flying faster than the aircraft you are chasing . 

At that point , I did not know what to say on the phone (the Rafale was loosing !!!) .

Fortunatly for my Ego , my friend told me : "don 't worry Fred , the Rafale will make its turn and end up flying slowly than the Mirage but its better acceleration will allow it to close in at the first turn or vertical pass , from there on the -5 is in the sh*t" .

 

Hehe , I knew it ;-) 

 

Cheers .