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Subject: Dogfight tricks ...
Bluewings12    4/22/2009 6:07:56 PM
A M2000-5 Pilot here in Dijon ~a friend of mine~ told me that He and his aircraft can leave any other following aircraft in the dust with one pass . When I asked "any aircraft ?" , he said yes and he directed me to that video :
h*tp://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3424v_french-air-force-mirage-20005_shortfilms

He said to me , check from 1:12 to 1:28 .
He explained to me that the Mirage is diving instantly nose first with a negative 4Gs plunge , followed by a 6g plate then followed by an 11g 180deg turn , the end speed is close to 300 knots .
He said to me , "imagine where the bugger who is following you ends up ? NOWHERE !"

To start with , 99% of the Pilots will not plunge nose first but will make a roll to dive "against the Gs" . There are 3 reasons to do so :
#1 to avoid the "red-out" , # the FBW is not at ease , #3 you need a delta wing .
When I asked him how he could turn the situation to his advantage , his answer was simple : "keep turning high Gs left or right , depends where he went and you 'll end up behind him , if he goes vertical go vertical too , he will ALSO be in front of you"

Please , post some other nice videos of good dogfight tricks :-)

Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       4/22/2009 6:08:59 PM
(What 's going on with this crap Website ???)
 
Cheers .
 
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VelocityVector       4/22/2009 6:22:54 PM

(What 's going on with this crap Website ???)
Cheers .
Why, crap-flinging.  Else perhaps you were launching virtual chaff and flares to decoy us from an actual point of contention ;>)
 
v^2

 
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VelocityVector       4/22/2009 6:24:51 PM

BTW you have nothing on Michael Vick in terms of dog fighting.  Trust me on this ;>)

v^2

 
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Bluewings12       4/22/2009 6:25:18 PM
lol ! Seriously , this Website should switch to a different software ...
 
Cheers .
 
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VelocityVector       4/22/2009 6:31:44 PM

lol ! Seriously , this Website should switch to a different software ...
Cheers .


It's a bit challenging at times (most of the times, in fact).  They need to discover Drupal.  Take care.
v^2

 
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Bluewings12       4/22/2009 6:35:12 PM
Drupal ?
Enlight me , please .
 
Cheers .
 
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Claymore       4/22/2009 8:30:46 PM
Was he talking about Dog Fighting with AMRAAM or AIM-9X?
 
I am pretty sure they are not afraid to make that dive. 
 
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Herald12345    A 60 g turn RAYTHEON missile has no problem.   4/22/2009 9:18:49 PM

Was he talking about Dog Fighting with AMRAAM or AIM-9X?

 

I am pretty sure they are not afraid to make that dive. 


as long as the radar or IR lock holds.
 
Herald
 
 
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sentinel28a       4/22/2009 10:50:52 PM
Can't make the link work.  Is the Mirage guy describing a variant on the split-S?
 
 
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Herald12345    No.   4/22/2009 11:04:52 PM

Can't make the link work.  Is the Mirage guy describing a variant on the split-S?

 


Hard to see it as anything but a variant of the Immelman.
 
Anyway I saw nothing there that a Falcon or a Hornet could not pace or point.
 
Herald
 

 
 
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warpig       4/23/2009 10:16:13 AM
The manuevers looked beautiful.  I'd say there's no denying that the whole Mirage family are pretty jets.  Of course, "11Gs" is bull... and it's the second time now that you've claimed them.  The first time was bad enough regarding the Rafale.  This time it's just ridiculous.
 
 
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Ispose    French G's   4/23/2009 10:29:44 AM
You have to Understand that in France G's are cumulative so if you do a 3 G manuever followed by a 6 G manuever then Dassualt puts out a brochure claiming 9 G manuevers...quite simple actually.
However they don't count negative G manuevers
There are some Rafale's out there now that do 110 G manuevers..LOL
 
 
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FJV    Unless it is going mach 6   4/23/2009 2:00:03 PM
A 60 g turn RAYTHEON missile has no problem.
 
"http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/6-54840/page2.aspx"

As always it all depends.

 
 
 
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sentinel28a       4/23/2009 2:02:24 PM
I dunno.  He was easily taking and sustaining 9Gs on some of those turns.  No denying that the Mirage 2000 is a fine aircraft and the AdA have some damn fine pilots (I would even say the majority, after watching them exercise when I lived in Germany).  I'd hate to go up against one.
 
As for that manuever, I would say it would be pretty tough to follow if you were right on the Mirage's butt.  The sudden dive you could compensate for, but not that turn at the end--that would throw you off.  However, I would think that a counter would be either to hose off an IR when he starts the dive, or go high and wait for him to make his turn, then drop in behind him--similar to the high-G yo-yo that F-4 pilots used to use to counter the MiG-17's turn radius.
 
 
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Herald12345       4/23/2009 2:24:06 PM

A 60 g turn RAYTHEON missile has no problem.

 

"http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/6-54840/page2.aspx"




As always it all depends.






 

 
Not at those speeds FJV and not when your blast radius is sufficient.
 
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