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Subject: F-35 won't work well in hot climates?
reefdiver    4/13/2009 10:57:10 AM
from: link Not necessarily the best source but does bring up some points. Heat management, particulary in light of increasing electronics requirements, has always been a substantial issue for the F-35. excepts from the article: ....will not fly properly in hot weather ...early versions of the showpiece F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter are ?very limited? in the heat. ...In America, F-35s are only doing limited flying in hot weather while the makers try to fix the problem. ...(the F-35) jets will have limited range and may even have problems landing with weapons on board. That could mean pilots having to dump any bombs that have not been used. ...The F-35 risks overheating because designers want it to be ?stealthy? ? so it won?t show up on enemy radar. That means it can?t have the usual air scoops and vents to cool its engine, since they would show up as infra-red hotspots. So pilots need lots of fuel on board to keep the jet cool, restricting mission range. It is an even bigger headache for the British F-35B jump jet model, which already has less range than other versions because its big fan for hovering takes up a lot of fuel space. Defence Technology International editor-in-chief Bill Sweetman told us: ?JSF in its current form will be very limited in hot-weather performance and modifications intended to fix the problem won?t start to be tested until 2011 or 2012. ?But by that time the UK will be well down the road to building ships that can only operate JSFs.? The Ministry of Defence admits sorting the F-35 for hot weather is ?a demanding task? but insists they are on top of the problem and ?it is not a programme risk?.
 
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reefdiver       5/11/2009 2:05:34 PM
The problems of the F-35 will undoubtly be solved (as with other troubled projects like the A400M). This particular one just represents overreaching and the illness of continual specification modifications. Thermal issues like this are particularly insidious because they affect or are affected by every subsystem installed. That being said - they not doubt make for interesting engineering exercises.
 
The true problem is not the ability of engineers to overcome engineering challenges but the larger challenge of politics. As pointed out previously, its the political ramifications that are the most dangerous. Anything issue that slows down, or hints at slowing down, development or increases cost at this time provides yet another load of fodder to the political animals who excrete the smelly stuff.
 
 
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FJV       5/11/2009 3:16:50 PM
To be honest I don't think the heat issue is as big a problem as it is made out to be.
 
I have a hunch there are several directions in which the F35 design team could look for a possible solution. A hunch, because obviosly they are not gonna give me the F35 design data.
 
My gut feeling is that this is not such a big problem.
 


 
 
 
 
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DarthAmerica       5/11/2009 3:24:52 PM

To be honest I don't think the heat issue is as big a problem as it is made out to be.


It's not. The program managers on both sides would have been well aware of this for some time. Its no doubt on the to do list of issues from the compliance matrix. There are many dozens if not hundreds of other issues being worked on as well...

 
I have a hunch there are several directions in which the F35 design team could look for a possible solution. A hunch, because obviosly they are not gonna give me the F35 design data.

My gut feeling is that this is not such a big problem.

 ...agreed. This is just J Q puplics first exposure to what we deal with in the engineering world on a constant basis because of the availability of the media.




-DA


 

 

 

 
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Bluewings12       5/11/2009 7:49:18 PM
Pfff ... The most appealing thing is the fact that the F-35 still on the road map . It should have been dumped at the drawing board . It 's a dog ...
Coming from a Country who has made the B1 , the B2 and the F-22 , the pseudo F-35 is a disgrace and a theft for the Partners .
 
Cheers .
 
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french stratege       5/11/2009 8:38:03 PM
I don't think that F35 is a dog.
It is a very ambitious challenge considering that you have a supersonic stealth plane in 3 versions including a STOVL one.
And moreover you want it affordable so with a massive investment in manufacturing R&D.
No so easy.
A sort of F111 program of today (which was an interservice plane) but with the same problem of managing complexity.
I think moreover, that USA at begining put emphasys on Air to ground saying that F22 would do the job to clean the sky.
F35 was not supposed initially to be better than a F16 in flight performance.
 
I think that threat on F22 and foreign partners requirements have pushed for a better plane in AtoA with better electronic.
So some delays, a more heavier and costly airplane( but so much costly still), more power ...
Howewer the biggest weakness of F35 is still its global compromise.To get a huge internal bay to accomodate 1 tons AtoG weapons on a "small" fighter is an enormous penalty for high speed performance (frontal surface and area law) and it is not easy to achieve AtoA correct performance while staying affordable.
At the end US version will do the job for what they are intended for and USA will pay the price to fix problems.
But for export downgraded versions when you don't have a pure fighter aside like F22?
No wonder why Korean or Japanese are looking for their own fighter considering their  requirement is AtoA first.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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french stratege       5/11/2009 8:39:56 PM
Soory read:
So some delays, a more heavier and costly airplane( but NOT so costly still), more power ...
 
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Bluewings12       5/11/2009 8:52:33 PM
For God sake FS , you 're talking about the F-35 like if it was operational with some minor troubles . This is not the case !!!
The bloody thing is still a prototype barely flying with internal loads only , it is fat , heavy , slow and has so many design problems that naming them all would take an entire page !
Just agree with me it is simpler FS ;-) : the F-35 is a dog .
 
Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       5/11/2009 9:06:53 PM
Just a question to the F-35 fans , a nasty question :
What is the maximum load (internals+fuel+externals) a STOL F-35 can take off with and bring back ? (without exploding or setting the deck on fire)
Ridiculous ...
 
Check the Rafale M for size ...
 
Cheers .
 
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Beazz       5/11/2009 11:20:12 PM

Just a question to the F-35 fans , a nasty question :

What is the maximum load (internals+fuel+externals) a STOL F-35 can take off with and bring back ? (without exploding or setting the deck on fire)


Ridiculous ...

 

Check the Rafale M for size ...


 

Cheers .



LOL.. Yea ok BW. The nation that not only wrote the book on modern day jet age carrier operations, but is the only one to even have a copy of it. The only nation on the planet that has a *super* carrier, and has 11 of them. The only NAVY in the world to have in excess of 1000 fighters, matter fact, more then just about any other nations Air Force, certainly more then those 250 or so French ones. The only nation on the planet that ALWAYS has 3-5 of these carriers at sea ALL the time, unlike one nation I know of that has ONE baby carrier by US standards that hasn't even figured out yet that it is actually suppose to be a sea going vessel and not a floating dockside motel and whose 25 or 30 super planes have to use the USN's carriers to even stay qualified. That nation, the USA,  will surely go ask the FRENCH how to operate them and what to put on them. Yea right. That's what we'll do BW. lol Why don't you tell the poor misguided USN how it should be done? lol What a joke you and the French are.. Gawddddddddd
 
Beazzzz
 
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Das Kardinal       5/12/2009 1:33:24 PM




Just a question to the F-35 fans , a nasty question :



What is the maximum load (internals+fuel+externals) a STOL F-35 can take off with and bring back ? (without exploding or setting the deck on fire)






Ridiculous ...



 



Check the Rafale M for size ...






 



Cheers .









LOL.. Yea ok BW. The nation that not only wrote the book on modern day jet age carrier operations, but is the only one to even have a copy of it. The only nation on the planet that has a *super* carrier, and has 11 of them. The only NAVY in the world to have in excess of 1000 fighters, matter fact, more then just about any other nations Air Force, certainly more then those 250 or so French ones. The only nation on the planet that ALWAYS has 3-5 of these carriers at sea ALL the time, unlike one nation I know of that has ONE baby carrier by US standards that hasn't even figured out yet that it is actually suppose to be a sea going vessel and not a floating dockside motel and whose 25 or 30 super planes have to use the USN's carriers to even stay qualified. That nation, the USA,  will surely go ask the FRENCH how to operate them and what to put on them. Yea right. That's what we'll do BW. lol Why don't you tell the poor misguided USN how it should be done? lol What a joke you and the French are.. Gawddddddddd

 

Beazzzz

That was a pretty weak answer even by SP messageboards standards... 
"Huh huh FRENCH surrender monkeys ! Mighty mighty America FUCK YEAH !" basically

On topic : coud the fuel heat exchange be supplemented by an air radiator, which would only be used on the return trip (when fuel level bcomes low but the plane's out of harm's way) and be concealed the rest of the time ? 
 
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