It's not a P-47, superlative Fighter/Fighter Bomber or a P-51, that's its problem...like the F4f it would have seen the Allies thru the war, without its replacement(s).  But, because its replacements were so good, it gets over-shadowed.

 

I never meant to knock the P-40...it's just that, it's not a P-51....

No problems. Like I said in the set up, the P40 was well replaced by other types, but early in the conflict allied pilots took a back seat to noone by flying the P40 or for that matter, the F4F. It deserves to be appreciated for that!

Check Six

 

Rocky

Why oh why didn't we turbocharge that engine or at least give it a two stage supercharger?

 

There wasn't much wrong with the P-40 airframe that a boosted engine couldn't fix.

Herald

that the reason was that other a/c were in the pipeline, with higher priorities for those commodities, and so the US AAF felt that to divert production to a near-obsolescent a/c would be counter-productive.  Why upgrade the F-4 Phantom if you're about to get the F-15?

 

Somethings, the P-40 was NOT going to be able to do...like escort bombers to Berlin.  You may debate the advisability of sending bombers to Berlin, but as far as the USAAF was concerned that was a Holy Grail, so they didn't debate its worth.  So, the P-51 became a necessity.

 

Neither was the P-40 going to hunt tanks like the P-47, the in line, liquid engine made it too vulnerable.

 

So the P-40 had its limits in the Second World War.  And the USAAF may have felt that it's utility as a prime a/c in primary theatres was limited, so they weren't going to bother with a extensive upgrade.

All P40's were supercharged with a domestically produced Geared Supercharger (the very same system that the F4F used in it's radial engine). As I mentioned in my set up, it had a lower critical altitude than the Merlin's exquisite system who's critical altitude for the second state was about 20,000ft. The Brits had the best Turbos going in WWII. The P47 and the P38 had huge complex multi stage system that was just too big for the P40's slick airframe.  On balance the multi stage turbo charger was very desireable in a conflict that was fought above about 18000 feet msl. We didn't need that in the Pacific nor in the Mediteranean. So yes Herald, the P40 was supercharged.

 

ht***tp://www.aviation-history.com/engines/allison.htm

The few turbo-supercharged Allisons that were made, were allocated to P-38s, making the high-altitude performance of that plane its best feature. All 14,000 P-40s got gear-driven superchargers, and as a result, were never first-class fighter planes. Donaldson R. Berlin, the P-40's designer, has said that P-40s experimentally equipped with turbo-superchargers outperformed Spitfires and Messerschmitts and that if it had been given the engine it was designed for, the P-40 would have been the greatest fighter of its era. This may be to some extent the bias of a proud parent, but there is no doubt that the deletion of the turbo-supercharger ruined the P-39 .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously the P40 saw extensive use as a bomber escort in every theatre and it was well known as a ground attack aircraft. If you compare the P40 to its contemporaries the escort range went something like this:

 

P40 about 800 miles

F4F Wildcat about 700 miles

BF109 about 600 miles

Spitfire about 450 miles (until the mkVII which by then it could range out to about 700 miles)

A6M Zeke/Zero 1000+ miles it could range with the Mustang!

 

So you see the P40 was competitive with allied types in combat range, at least until the second tier of US aircraft arrived and was only surpassed by the axis A6M for range. Another interesting tid bit is that the commonwealth pilots had 90 aces who bagged at least some of their kills while flying the P40 and 40 pilots who got all of their kills in the P40. Starting in 1942 New Zealanders ran a 99 air to air kills to 20 losses. Japan had arguably the best pilots in the world at that time!

 

When you see a P40, snap a salute.

 

Check Six

 

Rocky

1) The P-51D had a range of 1,600 miles, with external tanks...yes, the P-40 could escort bombers, but it wasn't going to be able to fly to Berlin, at high altitude...and so I'd say this is one role for which the plane, as built, was not a good fit, such a non-fit it wasn't tried as far as I can tell.

 

2) I do think with an ASEA radar and Damocles pods, plus Spectra, that the P-40 would be a world beater, even today, certainly equal to F-16, in the early blocks.

Damn skip.  The P-40 was the F-4 of its time.  Yes, it had problems.  No, it couldn't turn with a Bf 109 or a Zero.  But it was incredibly tough and heavy, it could rip the hell out of anything that flew, and could fight well in the vertical.  It started in the war and it finished in it.

 

My understanding as to why it wasn't fitted with a turbocharger was there was a scarcity of them at the beginning of US involvement in the war, and priority went to bomber production.  Same reason why the P-39 went from a very promising scrappy dogfighter to just a dog.

 

Funny this should be posted...I just finished repairing my P-40E kit.  I dropped it while cleaning last night.  It's back where it belongs, in a place of honor next to my P-51D.  Which...sorry, Warhawk...is still my favorite fighter of all time.

 

No, it couldn't turn with a Bf 109 <Senty

I would evade being shot at accurately by pulling so much g force... that you could feel the blood leaving the head and coming down over your eyes... And you would fly like that for as long as you could, knowing that if anyone was trying to get on your tail they were going through the same bleary vision that you had and you might get away. I had deliberately decided that any deficiency the Kittyhawk had was offset by aggression. And I'd done a little bit of boxing — I beat much better opponents simply by going for [them]. And I decided to use that in the air. And it paid off.ht***tp://www.abc.net.au/austory/transcripts/s513633.htm

 

A very interesting note about the P40 and the P51 is that they cost about the same price. The P40 cost the DOD about $47,000.00 and the Mustang cost about $50,000.00. A P47 cost almost $133K and the Corsair/F6F came in around $125-130K. So you could build two and a half mustangs for the price of the other types. The P40 had reached a point where it showed no advantage over the Mustang so it became the odd man out. Still our allies were happy to recieve it when the other more advanced designs were going to the USAAF. The Mustang was a better aircraft but that does not mean it wasn't the equal of its contemporaries like the Zeke and Bf109.

 

It's combat record against those types proved different.

 

Check Six

 

Rocky

Cute, but irrelevent. I am comparing the P40 to the aircraft it was pitted against. It was challenged by the A6M and the Bf109, not the F16. It was overall equal in performance to those types and certainly not a second rate aircraft by any measure. I never said it could escort bombers to Berlin, nor was it ever asked to. The Vaunted P47 couldn't make the trip to Berlin either so does that mean it wasn't a world beater?

 

 

Check Six

 

Rocky

 

Cute, but irrelevent. I am comparing the P40 to the aircraft it was pitted against. It was challenged by the A6M and the Bf109, not the F16. It was overall equal in performance to those types and certainly not a second rate aircraft by any measure. I never said it could escort bombers to Berlin, nor was it ever asked to. The Vaunted P47 couldn't make the trip to Berlin either so does that mean it wasn't a world beater?

 

 

Check Six

 

Rocky

 

1) You quote its range a plus, I'm merely pointing out that it's range is OK, but as far as long-range needs go it was inferior to the P-51D.  So inferior that it was a role that could not be filled by the P-40.  In many ways it was a fine a/c, in this role it would have been a dog...  The P-47 had as equivalent range, more fire power, was sturdier, and could perform A2A and A2G, I'd give the nod to the P-47 over the P-40, and no neither of them were dogs.  It's merely that the P-40 was an older design that got caught and then passed by later designs, such as the P-47.

2) You're too used to herald/BW blood feuds...that was a joke at BW's expense, re: the P-40 and Spectra, you know, not a dig at the P-40.  You know some folks believe that the Rafale is the end-all-be-all of modern a/c design and can be used multi-role wunderwaffe...I was merely poking fun at that attitude, not you or the plane.