Rafale Thread

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leroy 3/24/2009 2:40:15 AM

"How do we chill an IR seeker for 10 hours is a known process , but the trick is classified , sorry ."

LMAO

You don't have access to any kind of secrets kid. (nor could you make any sense of them if you did)

This goes back to you claiming to be an adult. We all know you are a liar, so why take anything you say seriously?

Quote Reply

leroy 3/24/2009 2:42:24 AM

"Read the Blk 52 post again. The F-16's had no RWR fitted. The F-16's only claimed kills when they fired AMRAAM in the NEZ, the French claimed all shots as kills. That is not a spanking by either side and it was not C-7 or D, otherwise it might have been one but not in the way you think."

If indeed the French were doing this, then it is a surprisingly unprofessional showing. Naturally bluewings will ignore anything he doesn't like and misunderstand anything he thinks is somehow favorable to his favorite airplane.

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leroy 3/24/2009 3:01:29 AM

"To start with , who has the proof that a US RWR system can detect and track a very agile and fast frequency changing LPI French PESA radar ? Anyone ?"

Ah yes, you require "proof" that the sky is indeed blue once again... and you wonder why people get sick of you?

"On the other hand , SPECTRA (F1) had no trouble to detect and precisely locate the AGP-68(V9) . My guess is that SPECTRA F3 can do better than that ;-)"

Where did anyone say "precisely locate"? And who gives a crap about a fanboy's "guess?"

This is yet another example of you completely ignoring anything you don't like, and misunderstanding and exaggerating things you do.

You read an article about Rafale's performing poorly against not even fully equipped F-16s... and you somehow misunderstand the article and get the exact opposite impression. If this were a reading comprehension test you would have failed badly.

"I already explained how the French can use MICA at its max range with an excellent PK , JP Bergerac has also explained the fact and there is no need to come back on it . "

... and we have already explained why your "explanations" were laughable kid. That is what is so pathetic about your little show.

Your claims don't even make sense to someone who understands the basics. Maximum range means maximum range, the very edge of a missile's capability.

If you are talking about a maximum range shot, even a slight course change by your target will result in a miss. As warpig explained, a maximum range missile shot means you are firing your missile well before the target is within the distance the missile is even capable of traveling. If the target proceeds on its course it will reach the very edge of the distance your missile is capable of flying at the same time your missile is. In this scenario the missile will have expended all of its energy(speed) and will be incapable of making any meaningful course changes or endgame maneuvers. If the target turns slightly, or even slows down slightly, the missile won't be able to match the maneuver because it simply won't have the energy to do so.

If the missile still had excess energy at its maximum range and could go farther if needed... WELL THEN THAT WOULDN'T BE A MAXIMUM RANGE SHOT MORON.

You don't even understand the concepts we are discussing and yet you want to lecture us? Give it a rest kid...

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HERALD1357 To the staff sergeant....... 3/24/2009 4:04:13 PM

DarthAmerica Herald is a troll 3/22/2009 3:20:09 PM

Well actually V^2.......

As for you, Darth, I see that is your physics example? :rotflmaoayid.

There is no more than 1.7 gees positive load and no more than 1.5 gees negative load in that film clip. I can even tell you the positive and negative acceleration loads and when they occur.

Can you?

I can also tell you that you will NOT be able to hit a 1/2 inch square on a touchscreen without your finger skittering off the hot spot under those ridiculously small acceleration loads.

Arrogance can only work for you; if you can back it up, junior.

Herald

WERE YOU BORN THIS STUPID HERALD?

CAN YOU READ?

Obviously you can't do the second question because if you could, you would have noticed when I said that the Touch Screens are for BATTLE MANAGEMENT and situations where the aircraft is not in the process of violent maneuver. ARE YOU DENYING I SAID THAT? IF NOT, why are you posting this stupid strawman nonsense? It's because you have no idea what BATTLE MANAGEMENT is so when I mentioned it, you tried to hide your ignorance with a silly little strawman physics example and your usual hateful vitriolic responses. Herald, what you are going to learn, and I'm not mentioning names out of respect, but when you know something. You don't need to get arrogant and insulting. Every once and a while maybe. But this is your MO and it is to hide ignorance. The funny thing is HErald it's OK not to know something. Just ask me next time instead of posting a stupid post header like BUTT OUT. Oh let me guess, "I don't take advice from Pousers" or "I'll take you behind the woodshed" or "You are incompetent" blah blah blah. lol so freakin stupid you are. Thanks for making the already obvious even more so. Just for a recap. One you can't insult your way out of. IF YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD WHAT I SAID TO YOU...

"I don't need to do that Herald. Again, you are letting your ego get the better part of your judgement. I'm going to keep this objective and not personal and insulting so that maybe we can learn something and remain cordial. Almost every Humvee, Tank, Brandley ect has whats called Blue Force Tracker mounted inside. A lot of our allies have it as do a lot of our ATTACK HELOS. The interface is touch sensitive. It isn't just two dimentional either. The vehicles sit on springs and shocks which move in the vertical plane very violently over terrain and when doing offensive/defensive driving and it goes without saying that the helos arent 2D limited either. The application is battle management focused. There is no reason a fighter can't benefit from this as well. The turning fight and hard manuvering is only PART of the flight profile and then you have other controls on the stick for the basic immediately needed functions. We aren't the only ones either. Look at Helic3om as well."

Now stop trolling and pretending to know everything when you don't troll.

-DA

I've backed up everything I've said with FACTS. Your one attempt to foray into my backyard was a disaster for you. Learn and heed that lesson.

You already know that I have no respect for your opinions-NONE, since you've failed on so many levels that I've lost track of the times.

Second time. Stick to what you know.

Herald

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DarthAmerica 3/24/2009 5:37:11 PM

DarthAmerica Herald is a troll 3/22/2009 3:20:09 PM

Well actually V^2.......

As for you, Darth, I see that is your physics example? :rotflmaoayid.

There is no more than 1.7 gees positive load and no more than 1.5 gees negative load in that film clip. I can even tell you the positive and negative acceleration loads and when they occur.

Can you?

I can also tell you that you will NOT be able to hit a 1/2 inch square on a touchscreen without your finger skittering off the hot spot under those ridiculously small acceleration loads.

Arrogance can only work for you; if you can back it up, junior.

Herald

WERE YOU BORN THIS STUPID HERALD?

CAN YOU READ?

Now stop trolling and pretending to know everything when you don't troll.

-DA

I've backed up everything I've said with FACTS. Your one attempt to foray into my backyard was a disaster for you. Learn and heed that lesson.

You already know that I have no respect for your opinions-NONE, since you've failed on so many levels that I've lost track of the times.

Second time. Stick to what you know.

Herald

Herald, you are an idiot. Plain and simple. You know, like people who go to school, get A's, but come out not knowing jack $hit and with no common sense. Kind of reminds me a lot of new butter bars who don't know better than to listen to the advice of people who have actually done the things they have only read about in theory and have lived the differences. Look, you don't have a backyard here. You don't even have a point. I tried to educate you on what applications apply to touch screens cross platforms. YOU FAILED TO UNDERSTAND. Look, I hate to break it to you, but you don't have ANY kind of knowledge advantage over people here. If you want to be insulted and made to look stupid be my guess. But thats on you. I have given you a pass for long enough. Your going to continue to find out that I'm more than your match in all of these subjects and most of all in the vitriol category if you continue to test my patience. Now why don't you go run along and google about battle management so that the next time you comment with some uncalled for insult, AT LEAST YOU WILL KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT and you don't have to be politely reminded by myself and others.

YOU HAVEN'T BACKED UP JACK. All you did is insult and start a strawman argument over something you clearly didn't understand. Now take your own advice and stick to what you know.

-DA

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HERALD1357 Same old bully boy tactics? 3/24/2009 7:27:06 PM

I use science and sarcasm. All you have is shouting. Pick up the clue phone, staff sergeant and listen..

Its reality calling. You've lost this one all the way down the line, ego-maniac Gixxerking. You lost it when you tried to argue physics with ME.

Never rub another man's rhubarb, junior. he'll embarrass you .

Taa taa, Ruben.

Herald

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Bluewings12 3/24/2009 8:33:22 PM

I think everybody should cool down , I know that SP is not the place to cool down , but we should try ...

Back to the Rafale . I keep posting stuff mostly backed up with official French sites and people keep firing at me all guns blazing . Well , what can I say ???

earlm :

""I'm done. I'm boycotting this thread and any other that BW ruins.""

I am sorry earlm , I respect you and your attitude with me has always been good , courtesy first . So why such harsh decision ?

Because I ask if someone can prove that the PESA RBE2 can be detected and tracked by a US RWR ? It is a simple question don 't you think ? The Rafale has been using its PESA radar for almost 9 years , during excercises , during Military Ops , during multiple Joint Ops , so my question . Do we have any paper saying that a US RWR detected and tracked the RBE2 ? Do we ?

I don 't think we have but someone might have the proof , I am just asking .

Warpig :

""if an air-to-air missile has a range of 60km, that does not mean it can travel 60km before it hits its target.""

Excuse me Warpig but I didn 't write it , you did .

ie : if a car can reach 120mph , that does not mean that it can reach 120mph .

???

Of course you wrote something silly , but I understood what you meant . But you are still wrong Warpig . If "X" missile has a 60km range , it means that it can reach a target at 60km . CQFD .

Herald :

""You don't have a clue you stupid punk. A Peltier device DOESN'T need a gas flask to work (electrical a thermocouple in reverse you moron, I.E. a classic HERALD TRAP. Used in some obsolete iterations of Sidewinder). You are also a damned fool if you can't even read your own published evidence.""

??? Who said that the MICA was using some kind of gas flasks or primitive Peltier system ? WHO ???

It is you Herald , not me . You are wrong one more time . You really should stop the insults and stay away ...

The fact is you don 't even know how work the cooling system on MICA , just say so .

Leroy :

""No, he is absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong. Not only that, but he is right that that isn't even how you describe an air-to-air missile's range. A maximum range number for a missile is completely useless without knowing the exact scenario it is referring to.

As usual, your ignorance is stunning considering how much time you spend trying to argue about these topics.""

Bla-bla-bla ... If you would for one minute think as a Fighter pilot and not as an internet poster , it would do good to us all as we wouldn 't have to read such crap .

""A MICA seeker simply doesn't have a range of anything close to 40km in the vast majority of scenarios, but you are too much of an idiot to make sense of the information we are providing you.""

First , you did not provide anything as you obviously do not know what MICA is . Google a bit longer , dig deep and come back to me . Do your homework .

Surely , an IR seeker works better in good and clear weather (we all know this) and in a very bad storm , the MICA could be as blind as a bat , we know this . An excellent IRST would surely do better but it will do better in any almost scenarios . My point was to say that the MICA can be used as an IRST and it is . Period .

Insulting me will not change the FAF tactics ...

(me)

""How do we chill an IR seeker for 10 hours is a known process , but the trick is classified , sorry .

(Leroy)

LMAO You don't have access to any kind of secrets kid.""

You 're right , but have you ? Do you know the trick poseur4 ?

(me)

On the other hand , SPECTRA (F1) had no trouble to detect and precisely locate the AGP-68(V9) . My guess is that SPECTRA F3 can do better than that ;-)"

(Leroy)

""Where did anyone say "precisely locate"? And who gives a crap about a fanboy's "guess?""

Leroy , don 't tell me that you 're unaware of SPECTRA having a 1 degree accuracy ? In fact , the Blk-52s were very lucky to drill against Rafale F1s and not against Rafale F2s (or F3s) . Against the F2 , the Blk-52 is in a hell of trouble . SPECTRA will detect and locate the Viper (as it did) and pass on the info to the OSF . The latest will sleeve the High res Cam onto the Viper and at about 100km the Rafale Pilot will see the Viper on TV :-) Lovely !

Then (as JP Bergerac explained ~a Rafale Pilot) , the pilot will have 3 choices (without using the radar) :

- shoot a stealthy IR MICA at max range , turn around and hope for the best

- shoot a stealthy IR MICA , turn on the Viper 's beam (TV Cam to knwo where to turn) then use the LRF and the LAM (missile link) to update MICA (NEZ)

- close in undetected with the use of SPECTRA and OSF (3 O'clock , 9 O 'clock attack ~outside radar beam) , then LRF + shoot (NEZ) .

Keep in mind that Rafale does not have to use its radar yet . The aircraft is not emiting , it 's all passive .

I am not lying and making up things , you all know the rafale well enough now . I can 't tell you BS .

This was just to demonstrate that if the Blk-52 had a RWR , it wouldn 't change a thing since the Rafale is not using any kind of radio waves . Do you get it ?

(back in a short while)

Cheers .

Quote Reply

DarthAmerica 3/24/2009 8:34:22 PM

I use science and sarcasm. All you have is shouting. Pick up the clue phone, staff sergeant and listen..

Its reality calling. You've lost this one all the way down the line, ego-maniac Gixxerking. You lost it when you tried to argue physics with ME.

Never rub another man's rhubarb, junior. he'll embarrass you .

Taa taa, Ruben.

Herald

You could not win a physics argument against me if I gave you the answers in advance! But we weren't having a physics argument were we troll? I think not! Here since you have a hard time reading. You can practice with this...

WTF was physics based about that other than I reference the fact that these user interfaces are in vehicles of all kinds including ones that do violent maneuver? WHAT!!!???. Tell us troll? DID I make an argument suggesting some pilot will fight via touch screen while dogfighting? NO. Read the GDamn highlighted text moron. I told you it's a battle management focused UI. What about that do you not understand? TELL US AND STOP TROLLING AND FLAMING FOR NO REASON. You can't because what I was saying is clear. You picked a fight over NOTHING because of your EGO. Why do you think others chimed in mentioning their similar knowledge of touch screens?

YOU ARE A JOKE. List right now what so-called science or physics related argument you made against me? Go on. But before you do recall(see above) that I obviously made the distinction between battle management application and using a control stick or HOTAS to "fight" the airplane while maneuvering. What did you not understand? I eagerly await whatever stupid "science" or "physics" argument you think we had. What we had is a stupidity strawman argument where your ego and ignorance caused you to misinterpret what I said. Now I've posted evidence, FACTS, in support. What have you got? Jack Shhh....

Go Get a Clue

-DA

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Bluewings12 3/24/2009 8:54:11 PM

DA , you are absolutly right .

Btw , I 've never seen you so ... harsh with a poster , not even with me ;-)

Herald is indeed a real clown ...

Cheers .

Quote Reply

HERALD1357 You are as big an idiot now as you were when you posted as GIXXERKING you know that, Darth? 3/24/2009 9:47:29 PM

I use science and sarcasm. All you have is shouting. Pick up the clue phone, staff sergeant and listen..

Its reality calling. You've lost this one all the way down the line, ego-maniac Gixxerking. You lost it when you tried to argue physics with ME.

Never rub another man's rhubarb, junior. he'll embarrass you .

Taa taa, Ruben.

Herald

Go Get a Clue

-DA

I still can't believe you think you can back that LIE that you can discuss physics with me up. But go ahead cretin.

As of now you have just entered Blue Wings territory. I don't know why you let your ego take control of your big mouth, but as I said you don't have a effing clue.

Example: I don't give a rodent's rectum about what you said about HOTAS. That wasn't the center of the argument so i didn't address it you red herring moro0n. I discussed touch screens and acceleration forces and what Humans can do under acceleration. THAT was where you proved that you didn't knowe what you were talking about. now you try to change the argument. well you and BW can share the same company.

You deserve erach other, incompetent egomaniacs.

Herald

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HERALD1357 BW, You are as big an idiot as Darth. 3/24/2009 10:02:15 PM

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Google Joule-Thompson and Stirling Cryogen, stupid.

Herald

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Bluewings12 3/24/2009 10:22:07 PM

Ok Herald , I followed your advice and and I found stuff which seems to indicate that the USA is using about the same technology than France , you might actually be slightly ahead but I am not a French engineer .

But let me ask you this : is the latest US IR missile using the stirling technology ?

Well ?

Cheers .

Quote Reply

SYSOP1 Herald - for the SysOps Collective 3/24/2009 10:27:23 PM

After looking at the last week of Herald's posts, we have found them to be increasingly vitriolic, and in clear violation of our terms of service. Despite repeated warnings, this attitude on his part has continued. We are therefore suspending Herald's posting privileges until such a time as he can comport himself - on a regular basis - befitting the rules of these boards.

The SysOps Collective

Quote Reply

MM 3/24/2009 10:36:09 PM

That depends on overall background contrast as the amount of excitation (HEAT) as the aircraft heats (kinetic energy imparted) to the air by its generated shockwave. Its a physical effect as the standing shockwave causes its own friction event interface air on air [or even SOUND] (acts like a solid). But then as with the aircraft heating up itself as an object, DISTANCE and local obscuration effects degrade the detector's ability to see the event as a heat source or to count it by sampling, or see it move across a "static" background..

Sorry but that is as simple as I can explain it.

Herald

Hey thanks that actually explains it quite well. Since you and gf0012-aust obviously know what you?re talking about can you explain some of the limitations to IRST are? You can often read about these fantastic detection ranges and how they are a counter to low observables yet the principle users of LO platforms don?t seem to be loosing any sleep over them. I know for instance that LM states that the F-22 has balanced observables (referring to IR and radar) and it posses a low supersonic IR signature but that could mean many things such has simply not using blower which undoubted reduces your signature dramatically.

Thx
MM

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DarthAmerica 3/24/2009 10:36:13 PM

I still can't believe you think you can back that LIE that you can discuss physics with me up. But go ahead cretin.

Oh my bad, I forgot your ___ invented physics....

As of now you have just entered Blue Wings territory. I don't know why you let your ego take control of your big mouth, but as I said you don't have a effing clue.

...Yeah sure but If you could just get back to me with what SPECIFIC PHYSICS error I made thar would go a long way toward disproving he obvious fact that you got caught making a strawman...

WOW Herald is it really this easy to prove how much of a incompetent trolling prick you are? Because I specifically said...

...So I didnt change anything. IT WAS MY ORIGINAL MEANING WHICH ALL OTHER POSTERS UNDERSTOOD except you...lol So silly of you to pick this fight....

You deserve erach other, incompetent egomaniacs.

...I deleted that nice picture of that you put up. All things considered I don't think you should be drawing attention to yourself. There was a time when people on this site would have respected you. But you have offended so many with your unnecessary personal attacks that no one want's to talk to you. The hypocracy of you to call anyone an egomaniac is staggering. Anyway, when you get the time, please post a quote of when I made any statement contrary to the laws of physics or science in this thread. Otherwise STFU

Herald(discredited)

Herald, I know the psychology behind your behavior. You have a confidence problem because you never served. You feel like your opinions and Ideas may not be given the credit they deserve if people knew this. But you understand your limitations and realize that you can't BS people into thinking you did. So instead, you compensate for this self perceived inadequacy by treating people like $hit and most of all the people you are jealous of who have been out there doing for whatever reason you never got to do. My advice would be for you to go and do some kind of volunteer work or even just look at yourself in the mirror and be proud of who you are as a person. You don't need to continue to assert yourself and degrade and insult others. Everytime you do it tells me as much about you as it does them.

There is a scene in the Empire Strikes Back you should watch. Young Luke meets Master Yoda for the first time and tells him he is looking for a great warrior. Yoda informs the bewildered Luke that wars don't make a person great. I think if you sit down and figure that one out for yourself, you might wake up the next day a lot happier than you are now. Not go get a grip. Unless you can post this physics "error" you think I made and back it up with a quote. Or unless you respond with something relevant to the topic minus all the insults, I'm done with this. This isn't me and I'm better than this. Good Luck and regards...NFC

-DA

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