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Subject: Rafale Thread
Softwar    3/9/2009 9:47:25 AM
Started with hope that BW will limit his comments here instead of in every other Fighter thread. I'll start off with:

1 - no export sales
2 - no laser designator
3 - no AESA
4 - overpriced 4th gen fighter
 
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Bluewings12       3/23/2009 6:25:34 PM
It is really hard to have a nice and cool discussion with you gents , really . But I keep trying .
 
I 'm 46 end of April so you calling me Kid is pleases me , thank you :-)
 
Warpig :
""Thus the total distance traveled by the missile would have been much less than 84km.""
 
Wrong , the total distance flew by the missile WAS 84km . What we don 't know is the position and range of the targeted aircraft at the time of shooting , was it going away , was it closing , was it on the beam ?
 
""if an air-to-air missile has a range of 60km, that does not mean it can travel 60km before it hits its target.""
 
???
Basicaly , your long post doesn 't say much ...
 
Leroy ' s post is nothing but vile and venom . Poseur4 can 't go beyond his own Ego and it is appalling and he is calling me kid , well ...
Regarding MICA being used as an IRST , I proved my case years ago as well as today . Now , I also said that the MICA 's seeker had a 35-40km range which is not a lot compare to a real IRST , I never said otherwise Poseur4 .
In fact , besides insulting me and looking down on me , there is not much you can do Leroy . As usual ...

Cheers .
 
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HERALD1357    Look poseur 2.   3/23/2009 6:51:02 PM

It is really hard to have a nice and cool discussion with you gents , really . But I keep trying .

 

I 'm 46 end of April so you calling me Kid is pleases me , thank you :-)

 


Warpig :

""Thus the total distance traveled by the missile would have been much less than 84km.""

 

Wrong , the total distance flew by the missile WAS 84km . What we don 't know is the position and range of the targeted aircraft at the time of shooting , was it going away , was it closing , was it on the beam ?

 


""if an air-to-air missile has a range of 60km, that does not mean it can travel 60km before it hits its target.""

 

???

Basicaly , your long post doesn 't say much ...

 

Leroy ' s post is nothing but vile and venom . Poseur4 can 't go beyond his own Ego and it is appalling and he is calling me kid , well ...

Regarding MICA being used as an IRST , I proved my case years ago as well as today . Now , I also said that the MICA 's seeker had a 35-40km range which is not a lot compare to a real IRST , I never said otherwise Poseur4 .

In fact , besides insulting me and looking down on me , there is not much you can do Leroy . As usual ...




Cheers .



Modern IR seeker equipped missiles, even the incompetently designed MICA, use a chiller to cool down the IR sensor so that they can get a good temperature sensitivity contrast locally so that they improve their sensitivity threshhold to detect and sample a heat source either by pure contrast path across a FoV, photon energy state sampling, or blink comparison against background. Many chillers use a gas cartridge and a small refrigerator circuit whose useful chill time is measured in the tens of seconds as the gas is used up after which the sensor sensitivity DEGRADES as the rocket's nose HEATS UP. You'd know this if you bothered to read and learn just the stuff I dropped in this thread for the genuinely interested.
 
But no; to quote a fictional character: "Arrogance and stupidity all tied up in the same package: how very efficient of you!" 
 
Incidentally, Warpig is absolutely right. There is no such thing as constant range in a chase or intercept profile or a crossing profile above or below (count them, pseur 2, those are six base aspect variables, constantly changing,  to add as vector sums as well as at least three velocities.over TIME which is to say over INTERVAL) . If you knew the first thing about the three moving body and four moving body problem, which I explained to you, a year ago, you wouldn;'t keep posting the same stupid assertions you post..  
.
I doubt that you can even intuitively work out a two dimensional merge involving two moving bodies on a flat surface with one aspect variable over interval!
 
In sum, poseur 2, you don't even know the simple stuff and that gives you away as the uninformed troll.you are.
 
But keep posting. Today I'm bored and you've earned yourself a good whipping for the nonsense you post. 
 
Herald
 

 
 
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earlm    BW can't read   3/23/2009 7:03:52 PM
Read the Blk 52 post again.  The F-16's had no RWR fitted.  The F-16's only claimed kills when they fired AMRAAM in the NEZ, the French claimed all shots as kills.  That is not a spanking by either side and it was not C-7 or D, otherwise it might have been one but not in the way you think.
 
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Bluewings12       3/23/2009 8:38:48 PM
Herald , I asked you to go away . You 're not welcome anymore because you cannot stop posting BS .
Again you are wrong and again I have to correct you , it 's getting tiring .
Because you only are an internet addict and a clown , you think that what you read years ago somewhere is the truth . Well bad luck clown . About the IR Mica you said (I quote) :
 
""Many chillers use a gas cartridge and a small refrigerator circuit whose useful chill time is measured in the tens of seconds as the gas is used up after which the sensor sensitivity DEGRADES as the rocket's nose HEATS UP. You'd know this if you bothered to read and learn just the stuff I dropped in this thread for the genuinely interested.""
 
Read this mister the internet addict clown :
""L'autodirecteur infrarouge , de technologie très avancée, possède un système de refroidissement intégré et autonome ne nécessitant aucun entretien ni mise en oeuvre spécifique et d'une autonomie de 10 heures.""
 

Translation :
"The infrared seeker , very advanced technology, has an integrated and autonomous cooling system requiring no maintenance or implementation specific and with an autonomy of 10 hours."

10 HOURS , poseur3 and not just few seconds . That comes from the MN website :
h*tp://frenchnavy.free.fr/weapons/mica/mica_fr.htm

That means that the IR MICA can be used as a small IRST from take off to landing for 10 hrs .
Btw , you should check if the AIM-9X has the technonoly ...
How do we chill an IR seeker for 10 hours is a known process , but the trick is classified , sorry .

The rest of your post is just bla-bla . You loose again I am affraid Herald and you should acknowledge the fact ...

Cheers .

 
 
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       3/23/2009 8:55:47 PM
earlm :
""Read the Blk 52 post again.  The F-16's had no RWR fitted.  The F-16's only claimed kills when they fired AMRAAM in the NEZ, the French claimed all shots as kills.  That is not a spanking by either side and it was not C-7 or D, otherwise it might have been one but not in the way you think.""
 
To start with , who has the proof that a US RWR system can detect and track a very agile and fast frequency changing LPI French PESA radar ? Anyone ?
On the other hand , SPECTRA (F1) had no trouble to detect and precisely locate the AGP-68(V9) . My guess is that SPECTRA F3 can do better than that ;-)
I already explained how the French can use MICA at its max range with an excellent PK , JP Bergerac has also explained the fact and there is no need to come back on it . 

Cheers .
 
 
 
 
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Bluewings12       3/23/2009 9:20:04 PM
If I was talking BS , why that thread has 320+ posts and counting ?..
A troll does not deserves such attention ...
 
Cheers .
 
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HERALD1357    You pathetic idiot.   3/23/2009 9:27:06 PM

earlm :


""Read the Blk 52 post again.  The F-16's had no RWR fitted.  The F-16's only claimed kills when they fired AMRAAM in the NEZ, the French claimed all shots as kills.  That is not a spanking by either side and it was not C-7 or D, otherwise it might have been one but not in the way you think.""

 


To start with , who has the proof that a US RWR system can detect and track a very agile and fast frequency changing LPI French PESA radar ? Anyone ?

On the other hand , SPECTRA (F1) had no trouble to detect and precisely locate the AGP-68(V9) . My guess is that SPECTRA F3 can do better than that ;-)


I already explained how the French can use MICA at its max range with an excellent PK , JP Bergerac has also explained the fact and there is no need to come back on it . 




Cheers .


 

 

 




 
It means how long the gas flask is good before it has to be recharged before all the gas leaks out.Just how big a gas supply do you think the chiller can carry you buffoon? Of course the MICA could possibly use a primitive Peltier cooling unit, but that lasts only as long as the batteries hold out. That isn't very long either. By the way, we Americans, and some others use something called a Stirling cryo-engine, dummy, to cool our Sidewinders' seekers. Don't bother to google it. You'll find it, but you won't understand it at all.
 
Better yet, try and google, and see if you can understand......
 
ROFLMAOAYITD. 
     
Herald
 

 
 
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Bluewings12       3/23/2009 9:40:11 PM
Herald :
""It means how long the gas flask is good before it has to be recharged before all the gas leaks out.Just how big a gas supply do you think the chiller can carry you buffoon? Of course the MICA could possibly use a primitive Peltier cooling unit, but that lasts only as long as the batteries hold out. That isn't very long either. By the way, we Americans, and some others use something called a Stirling cryo-engine, dummy, to cool our Sidewinders' seekers.""
 
Gas flask ? Primitive Peltier ? You 're talking stone-age devices here clown ... Is your Stirling cryo-engine gives the AIM-9X 10 hours of absolute cooling ???
 
Cheers .
 
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Bluewings12       3/23/2009 9:45:21 PM
Please Herald , go away . Just read and manage your Ego .
 
Cheers .
 
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earlm       3/23/2009 10:06:11 PM
They F-16's didn't have RWR installed they couldn't have detected Freya or Wurzburg.
 
LPI French PESA.  Who wants first crack at that?
 
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earlm    On second thought   3/23/2009 10:13:11 PM
"To start with , who has the proof that a US RWR system can detect and track a very agile and fast frequency changing LPI French PESA radar ? Anyone ?"
 
I'm done.  I'm boycotting this thread and any other that BW ruins.
 
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warpig       3/23/2009 11:58:29 PM

Warpig :

""Thus the total distance traveled by the missile would have been much less than 84km.""

Wrong , the total distance flew by the missile WAS 84km . What we don 't know is the position and range of the targeted aircraft at the time of shooting , was it going away , was it closing , was it on the beam ?

""if an air-to-air missile has a range of 60km, that does not mean it can travel 60km before it hits its target.""

???

Basicaly , your long post doesn 't say much ...

Leroy ' s post is nothing but vile and venom .
Regarding MICA being used as an IRST , I proved my case years ago as well as today . Now , I also said that the MICA 's seeker had a 35-40km range which is not a lot compare to a real IRST , I never said otherwise .
 

 
If I was talking BS , why that thread has 320+ posts and counting ?..
A troll does not deserves such attention ...


[SIGH!]
You're right, you don't.  I tried to help you yet again, and all you can do is refuse to believe it and to say "???"
 
I think I have once again reached my BWToleranceQuotient, so I will now attempt to emulate earlm, if I can manage to hold back my natural urge to try to help people to learn.
 
 
 
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HERALD1357       3/24/2009 1:43:16 AM

Herald :


""It means how long the gas flask is good before it has to be recharged before all the gas leaks out.Just how big a gas supply do you think the chiller can carry you buffoon? Of course the MICA could possibly use a primitive Peltier cooling unit, but that lasts only as long as the batteries hold out. That isn't very long either. By the way, we Americans, and some others use something called a Stirling cryo-engine, dummy, to cool our Sidewinders' seekers.""

 

Gas flask ? Primitive Peltier ? You 're talking stone-age devices here clown ... Is your Stirling cryo-engine gives the AIM-9X 10 hours of absolute cooling ???

 

Cheers .



You don't have a clue you stupid punk. A Peltier device DOESN'T need a gas flask to work (electrical a thermocouple in reverse you moron, I.E. a classic HERALD TRAP. Used in some obsolete iterations of Sidewinder). You are also a damned fool if you can't even read your own published evidence.
 
I hate liars.
 
Herald


 
 
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gf0012-aust       3/24/2009 2:21:55 AM
herald.  bounce.rubbish at gmail.com  your old email is obviously dead to my email.
 
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leroy       3/24/2009 2:38:07 AM
"It is really hard to have a nice and cool discussion with you gents , really . But I keep trying .
 
I 'm 46 end of April so you calling me Kid is pleases me , thank you :-)"
 
You also claim to be knowledgeable about fighter aircraft, which we both know isn't even close to true.

I call you kid because that is what your behavior and level of knowledge most closely matches.  Take it as a sort of a compliment, if you were really 45 your behavior would be utterly pathetic.
 
  
"Wrong , the total distance flew by the missile WAS 84km . What we don 't know is the position and range of the targeted aircraft at the time of shooting , was it going away , was it closing , was it on the beam ?"
 
 No, he is absolutely right and you are absolutely wrong.  Not only that, but he is right that that isn't even how you describe an air-to-air missile's range. A maximum range number for a missile is completely useless without knowing the exact scenario it is referring to.   
 
As usual, your ignorance is stunning considering how much time you spend trying to argue about these topics.
 

 
"Leroy ' s post is nothing but vile and venom . Poseur4 can 't go beyond his own Ego and it is appalling and he is calling me kid , well ..."
 
Hey kid, I was nice to you at first, but your behavior at this point warrants nothing better. 
 
"Regarding MICA being used as an IRST , I proved my case years ago as well as today . Now , I also said that the MICA 's seeker had a 35-40km range which is not a lot compare to a real IRST , I never said otherwise Poseur4 .
In fact , besides insulting me and looking down on me , there is not much you can do Leroy . As usual ..."
 
You haven't proved anything kid, but what is sad is that you might actually believe that you have.  A MICA seeker simply doesn't have a range of anything close to 40km in the vast majority of scenarios, but you are too much of an idiot to make sense of the information we are providing you.  
 
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