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Subject: Rafale Thread
Softwar    3/9/2009 9:47:25 AM
Started with hope that BW will limit his comments here instead of in every other Fighter thread. I'll start off with: 1 - no export sales 2 - no laser designator 3 - no AESA 4 - overpriced 4th gen fighter
 
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DarthAmerica       3/18/2009 12:12:50 PM

Phaid :


""Again, you make this ridiculous assumption that only the Rafale has these HOTAS features. ""


 

Huh ??? I never said that , I only said that the Rafale has probably the best HOTAS system around , which is different .

 

Cheers .




BW,
 
Not that I agree or disagree, I DON'T KNOW, but how are you quantifying that statement? In other words, what parametric data are you using to make that assertion?
 
 
Regards
DA
 
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cwDeici       3/18/2009 2:49:43 PM
I'm no angel myself, but it's a bit sad to see people digging into each other like this.
Like I will say at the end, some people know a lot and some people don't, but everyone is a fool to the Lord.
Now on tack:

However, open or defensive hostility do not change basic facts. Using my strong basic intelligence, common sense and intuition its quite easy to tell who is right in the vast bulk of these arguments.
 
JP Bergerac and especially Darth America are probably telling the truth, they seem to know complicated things to a degree which would be hard to fake. Herald seems to be an expert (so much to the point that when I fooled around on these forums regarding very soft issues such as politics and values that he didn't even reply (first of all those subjects are quite subjective, second of all expertise usually doesn't bother with arguments that are plain especially if they are self-aware of their amateur nature) in his fields. Experts can sometimes be wrong, but they usually aren't. Perhaps he lacks real-life experience in the cockpit, flying, but it is elementary to know that most of his knowledge is not the kind of paper that can be disproven anymore. Bluewings assertions that the different experts here are paper-pushers shows a lack of sufficient intelligence to intuit what kind of 'paper-jobs' do not require an accurate theoretical view of reality.
 
Furthermore BW corrects himself... you do not even know that your airforce modified on some pods on your fighter. You're obviously highly patriotic and deluded about the capabilities of world fighters. Google searches work great for an education in simple fields and can give an accurate overview on complicated subjects if you have the wisdom to tell the enormous amounts of chaff from the wheat (I can't either if there's no wheat present, but I'm adept at indetifying who is most on their subject matter). You also follow basic ways of argueing that ignores the points others made or making accusations that are off-base because you expect them to write it again or didn't understand what they said. Political clout aside, the main motivation to buying something really expensive is VALUE. I'm surprised you think you know better
And it's not all about price either. I'm sure plenty of people would buy a few Rafales just to have a private look at them if they had one fifth of the stuff you claim.
France has made a misstep and you can't accept it but live on in your delusions, and thus you can't increase your knowledge or wisdom.
You even post the wrong pictures... and this is still relevant... but your English isn't too good. This will have an effect on your comprehension, and if you were truly able to debate with Herald on knowledge - his character aside (I make no comment, he might have savaged me in one of the threads I didn't return too ^^, not that I don't deserve any savaging at all, but I think I'm quite nice by human standards most of the time) that is specific to his professional levels of expertise then you at least need enough intelligence and wisdom to counter soome of his MASSIVE advantage... and language skills are one of many indicators as to intelligence (I'm not saying you're dumb, I hope you're smart, but I believe you are of below average intelligence... people around normal would at least have given in to some of the more plain anti-Rafale arguments... the only thing I've seen you give in to is price, so maybe you're smarter than you seem.). You make SO many EXCUSES... you seem to NEVER learn unless it's from a RAFALE LOVER telling you about the stuff that has thankfully been updated. It doesn't seem like you have much wisdom either as thus, as another form of intelligence. Your opponents call you stuff which is probably sinful and mean, but some of what they say is right. You call people stuff too, and some of what you say about their character may be right but I'm confident in sensing that you're off-base more than 95% of the time and imprecise the rest.
 
France is screwed thanks to De Gaulle. You shouldn't have left NATO in the first place. You should have forgotten your pride once you lost your colonies (I would have stuck it out in Algeria but I don't know about the subject). Or best of all, you should've stuck it out in Algeria and gotten NATO involved and stayed within their beautiful, beautiful network. This French confirmation bias I see in most French posters here make me wonder if it would really be better if you had lost your dreams and cunning.
You'll have to excuse the distraction, I have ADHD and some other else stuff.
 
You're a fanboy B
 
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cwDeici       3/18/2009 2:51:12 PM
Something else I forgot (not what I mentioned I forgot)... JP and Darth seem to lack knowledge outside their fields and seem to be going out on limbs, JP seems more aware of it (however he too is quite patriotic).
 
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cwDeici       3/18/2009 2:52:49 PM
Well, I guess Herald and some other experts (but some do) wouldn't reply on soft issues or especially when I'm messing around on soft issues. Most of them seem to be largely concerned with technical arguments. 
 
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cwDeici       3/18/2009 3:02:33 PM
About the Rafale:
 
From what I've read on it (just a few hours of worth): The R&D was done wrong so it is a suboptimal, expensive half-decent fighter at best with a few great characteristics... AT BEST. I'm not sure but maybe it could be a decent fighter... IF IT HAD THE HORDE OF USEFUL UPGRADES IT DOESN'T HAVE PROPERLY, YET OR AT ALL.
 
The Rafale might have AESA, inbuilt laser designator, this and that and all that SOME DAY... but it DOES NOT and will not properly for some time (even the half-baked solutions may not arrive) or never.
 
Therefore it is crap.
 
Any incomplete weapon can only counted to a fraction of AS IS. That's why bombing factories matters, to illustrate a simple point.
 
You can hold the Rafale up to what seems to be a half-decent standard, though Herald and others might still attack it, perhaps justly... if it had its upgrades and accessories... but it doesn't.
 
I'd be a rich man if I had a well-paying job and the wages in advance.
 
It just doesn't fly... no pun or physical allegory intended.
 
You can't... go on about how the Rafale is a great plane 'if only'.
 
R&D and aquisitions is a part of the game.
 
You can claim to have a good this and a good that, but not a good whole except as it be relevant theoretically... and those - while they feel unfair because of what could be - are HUGE disclaimers.
 
I guess you could go on about your theoretical papers, but that's just paperwork like you accuse them of.
Sure, paperwork is real enough on many occasations, but it has to be transferred to reality.
And even then the Rafale would be an agglutination of lumped-on accessories and built-in mistakes
 
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cwDeici       3/18/2009 3:09:29 PM
To correct the inaccuracies of philosophical statements:
 
You have a half-decent warplane, but it fails to complete.
 
 
 
...
And stop saying it's pretty, huh? It might be true to most, but it's so desperate. I think the Raptor is pretty, but noone ever goes on about that...
 
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cwDeici       3/18/2009 3:16:25 PM
Rather, saying the Rafale is pretty indicates a high likelihood of bias/warm feelings for it.
And it's rather low, intellectually, to stoop to another country's financial crisis to help blame one's own difficulties.
 
The most backwards Islamic and African countries are the ones that blame others the most. They have the most awful conspiracy theories.
 
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gf0012-aust    Herald   3/18/2009 4:08:15 PM
not sure whether the email acct I have is working (or whether you've passed out!).  I'm offsite for a week so can't check your email from work.  send me an email to bounce dot rubbish at gmail dot com and I'll set up a filter so that you don't get nuked and sent to the spam bin
 
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DarthAmerica       3/18/2009 4:40:10 PM

Something else I forgot (not what I mentioned I forgot)... JP and Darth seem to lack knowledge outside their fields and seem to be going out on limbs, JP seems more aware of it (however he too is quite patriotic).

The only people commenting outside their area on the issue of touchscreens would be Softwar and Herald who have never used any of the devices under discussion in the kinds of environments and conditions we are discussing. If you have been in the Military since about the last 5 years, you probably understand why Herald and Softwars assertions were inaccurate. If not then that explains a lot.
 
-DA
 
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Beazz    cwDeici   3/18/2009 6:12:48 PM
One question....
 
Where do they sell the drugs you take?
 
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