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Subject: 70% of Russian MiG-29s Out of Service
Softwar    2/9/2009 8:54:30 AM
link According to the Kommersant daily, at least 200 MiG-29 Fulcrum fighters, or 70% of the total in service with the Russian Air Force, are too old to take to the skies. The report in the commercial paper cited sources inside the Russian Defense ministry that Russia's MiG-29 fleet was mostly outdated and not capable of performing combat duties.
 
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Aussiegunneragain       5/25/2009 6:26:48 AM
The money isn't there. We're broke. CREF 2, 3, 4, and 5. 
Then you can't afford any more than 183 F-22's.

That you happen to agree with Darth should be an automatic alarm bell. Re-examine assumptions.
 
Nope, I base my opinion on the facts at hand rather than whether or not I like the person who posts it. Based on the facts as I see it he is right that there are other more important priorities than more F-22's at the moment.
 
PRCs. JH-7s J-10s, J-11s, and other aircraft. 052s, 53s, 054s and other floating PLAN junk. Varieties of TBMs and cruise missiles all of it pointed out to sea-much of it at the RoCs, but MOST of it at the RoKs and Japan and US. Ballistic missiles for example are not exactly DEFENSIVE.
 
JH-7s J-10s, J-11s are all F-22 fodder ... 8 missiles, 8 kills. After the first 20 fireballs the PLA pilots would be defecting to Vietnam like Iraqis did in Gulf War 1. You don't need F-22's to knock out CM's, F-35's, evolved teens and SAM's can do that. As for BM's, the F-22 isn't an ABM system so it is an irrelevant example.

 
 


 

Anyway, this is about the MiG 29 which is failung. What is NOT going out of production or grounded for design flaws and wearout, but actually increasing in use is the SUKHOIs. There are more of those FLANKERS being built in the HUNDREDS. Even in Russia.


 

 


 

Herald

 
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Herald12345       5/25/2009 6:49:26 AM

The money isn't there. We're broke. CREF 2, 3, 4, and 5. 


Then you can't afford any more than 183 F-22's.

We can swap around $13 billion from "community organizing".

That you happen to agree with Darth should be an automatic alarm bell. Re-examine assumptions.

Nope, I base my opinion on the facts at hand rather than whether or not I like the person who posts it. Based on the facts as I see it he is right that there are other more important priorities than more F-22's at the moment.

Whether or not I dislike the technically unqualified and over opinionated  asserter is not relevant. You take tbose assertionshe makes, the facts as you see them   and co-mingle with ACTUAK DATA and you still have sludge for your outcomes. GIGO. The priorities this Memorial Day as I read the public news just had a 4.7 Ruchter scale event as a datim point to show me that you are wrong.

PRCs. JH-7s J-10s, J-11s, and other aircraft. 052s, 53s, 054s and other floating PLAN junk. Varieties of TBMs and cruise missiles all of it pointed out to sea-much of it at the RoCs, but MOST of it at the RoKs and Japan and US. Ballistic missiles for example are not exactly DEFENSIVE.
 
JH-7s J-10s, J-11s are all F-22 fodder ... 8 missiles, 8 kills. After the first 20 fireballs the PLA pilots would be defecting to Vietnam like Iraqis did in Gulf War 1. You don't need F-22's to knock out CM's, F-35's, evolved teens and SAM's can do that. As for BM's, the F-22 isn't an ABM system so it is an irrelevant example.

16 missiles: mostly 7-8 kills from surface and air systems. One of these days some of us will be able to teach you HOW THINGS ACTUALLY WORK.  Also check out NCADE before you tell me what an F-22 can and cannot do.

Anyway, this is about the MiG 29 which is failing. What is NOT going out of production or grounded for design flaws and wearout, but actually increasing in use is the SUKHOIs. There are more of those FLANKERS being built in the HUNDREDS. Even in Russia.

Herald





 
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DarthAmerica    FS reply   5/25/2009 6:57:39 AM

If we take reality of Russian aircraft today, they don't have probably more than 400 serviceable front line fighters like 200 SU27/30 and 80 Mig 29 and as much MIG31.Of course they have about 800 fighter in holding which is not the same than real available fighters.

Plus as much SU24 and SU25 for ground attack (no air to air capability)

And about 130 front line strategic bombers (Blackjack, Bear and backfire)

 
FS,

Just an FYI for you since I know you like this kind of stuff:


 A deputy Chief of the General Staff clarified the air campaign to date. 

?According to information from the conflict zone, Russian aircraft from 4th Air Force and Air Defense Army also are delivering strikes against Georgian positions.  That army has around 60 Su-24 front bombers, 100 MiG-29 fighters, 60 Su-27 fighters, 100 Su-25 attack aircraft, 40 L-39 light attack aircraft and 30 Su-24MR reconnaissance aircraft as well as 75 Mi-24 attack helicopters and other aviation equipment.?

 

?Su-25 attack aircraft and Su-24 front bombers were placed in action for this.  In fact, they destroyed all of Georgia?s combat aviation at its base locations.  They delivered a missile and bombing strike against the military airfield near Tbilisi and bombed the Tbilaviastroy Plant in a suburb of the Georgian capital, where Georgian Su-25 attack aircraft were being repaired and modernized.?  The Russian announced today that they achieved complete air superiority.


 
Mig-29s Active over Georgia:

 

 
regards
-DA
 
 
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DarthAmerica    Herald STOP FLAMING ME   5/25/2009 7:17:07 AM

Whether or not I dislike the technically unqualified and over opinionated  asserter is not relevant. You take tbose assertionshe makes, the facts as you see them   and co-mingle with ACTUAK DATA and you still have sludge for your outcomes. GIGO. The priorities this Memorial Day as I read the public news just had a 4.7 Ruchter scale event as a datim point to show me that you are wrong.

So then keep my name out of your mouth if it isn't relevant. Besides, the only person who's opinions here have been found to be technically unqualified and over opinionated assertions are yours and I can prove that...

Add to that suggestions that: 

touch screens are useless in fighter cockpits

UAVs can't fight fighters

The USAF should buy several hundred "Bomb Widows" 

Not knowing that the OIF MSR does not go through Basra  
 

Here is a hint. Be a good boy like SysOp told you to and stop inflicting your personal grudge against me on the rest of the forum troll. Again, the only person technically unqualified is you. Anyone following the link above can see that as a matter of record.



-DA 
 
 
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sentinel28a       5/25/2009 7:33:41 AM
Why can't we do science at home, Herald?
 
Because our education system stinks.  Instead of teaching students life skills they will need--such as, I don't know...how to write--they're taught touchy-feely "empowerment skills."  Makes 'em feel good, certainly, but they're functional illiterates.  Science isn't taught much anymore, for the same reasons, and probably because science is seen as nerdy and something to be loathed, rather than encouraged.
 
Until this is corrected, we're going to fall further and further behind as a nation, education-wise.  Moreover, we're going to be electing more and more American Idol style politicians, who can talk the loudest and look the cutest, and who either don't possess the skills themselves to effectively lead, or don't give a damn, or both.  Case in point is our current administration.
 
Feh.  No wonder we're cutting the F-22.  When you're taught all your life by washed-up refugees from Woodstock that all the world needs is a big ol' hug and that the source of the world's problems is the United States, it's probably very easy to cut the evil war machines.
 
I return you to the regularly-scheduled thread.
 
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Herald12345    I do not drink whine.   5/25/2009 7:40:18 AM




Whether or not I dislike the technically unqualified and over opinionated  asserter is not relevant. You take tbose assertionshe makes, the facts as you see them   and co-mingle with ACTUAK DATA and you still have sludge for your outcomes. GIGO. The priorities this Memorial Day as I read the public news just had a 4.7 Ruchter scale event as a datim point to show me that you are wrong.







So then keep my name out of your mouth if it isn't relevant. Besides, the only person who's opinions here have been found to be technically unqualified and over opinionated assertions are yours and I can prove that...





Add to that suggestions that: 




touch screens are useless in fighter cockpits




UAVs can't fight fighters




The USAF should buy several hundred "Bomb Widows" 




Not knowing that the OIF MSR does not go through Basra  

 




Here is a hint. Be a good boy like SysOp told you to and stop inflicting your personal grudge against me on the rest of the forum troll. Again, the only person technically unqualified is you. Anyone following the link above can see that as a matter of record.










-DA 

 

Herald
 
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Herald12345    I do not drink whine. (follow up)i   5/25/2009 7:43:34 AM











Whether or not I dislike the technically unqualified and over opinionated  asserter is not relevant. You take tbose assertionshe makes, the facts as you see them   and co-mingle with ACTUAK DATA and you still have sludge for your outcomes. GIGO. The priorities this Memorial Day as I read the public news just had a 4.7 Ruchter scale event as a datim point to show me that you are wrong.



















So then keep my name out of your mouth if it isn't relevant. Besides, the only person who's opinions here have been found to be technically unqualified and over opinionated assertions are yours and I can prove that...













Add to that suggestions that: 










touch screens are useless in fighter cockpits










UAVs can't fight fighters










The USAF should buy several hundred "Bomb Widows" 










Not knowing that the OIF MSR does not go through Basra  



 










Here is a hint. Be a good boy like SysOp told you to and stop inflicting your personal grudge against me on the rest of the forum troll. Again, the only person technically unqualified is you. Anyone following the link above can see that as a matter of record.
























-DA 



 




Herald

Or consider the opinions of the technically unqualified to be facts; or their advice to be valid.
 
Herald
 
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DarthAmerica       5/25/2009 8:17:58 AM
Good then you should stop posting since its you who have been found to be the "unqualified" poster so many times it's not funny. Again, one of your more recent examples...

It is I who said a rocket up the kazoo is something to do about pirates. The freighter captains want something done (general statement). I suggested a "so simple to use a six year old child could use it" specific solution (optical tracking point and launch rocket blows the pirates in a skiff up) and a simple common sense legal rule (they are chasing me and they won't leave me alone) legal rule of when to use it. 
 
Got a better idea that actually WORKS? Lay it out there. 

Herald 
 
 

...lol, Hey, maybe you should start posting about Rafales. 


-DA
 
 
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Herald12345    To the poster-DIRECT.   5/25/2009 8:30:03 AM

Good then you should stop posting since its you who have been found to be the "unqualified" poster so many times it's not funny. Again, one of your more recent examples...















It is I who said a rocket up the kazoo is something to do about pirates. The freighter captains want something done (general statement). I suggested a "so simple to use a six year old child could use it" specific solution (optical tracking point and launch rocket blows the pirates in a skiff up) and a simple common sense legal rule (they are chasing me and they won't leave me alone) legal rule of when to use it. 

 

Got a better idea that actually WORKS? Lay it out there. 





Herald 
 


 




...lol, Hey, maybe you should start posting about Rafales. 







-DA

 
Leave the commentary about airpower, seapower, science in general and psychology specifically to the PROFESSIONALS.
 
You aren't qualified. FACT. 
 
Herald
 
 
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DarthAmerica       5/25/2009 8:58:13 AM

Leave the commentary about airpower, seapower, science in general and psychology specifically to the PROFESSIONALS.


You aren't qualified. FACT. 

Herald

 Far more qualified than you apparently. At least I know that there are touchscreens in aircraft cockpits. At least I actually understand what a UAV is and what it can do. And least I know know what's going on and off the coast of Somalia is not a naval issue exclusively and the chief of Naval operations agrees with that. At least I know both in theory and from actual experience that you can use a machine gun effectively from a warship. Unlike you, actually understand the threat from Chinese rockets, flanker's and aircraft carriers and what that means in the context of the United States national security.

I hate to break the news to you, but PROFESSIONALS, don't carry silly grudges and know how to disagree without inserting their own personal biases as you've done here. You are neither professional nor qualified. That's why in a thread that's supposed to be about Russian jets, you've chosen to make another personal attack against me which other posters have called you on. You're just upset because you cannot find anyone that will entertain your paranoid delusions.


-DA 
 
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