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Subject: Turning F-5s Into MiG-21s
SYSOP    10/5/2008 8:11:15 AM
 
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newjarheadean    The pink force LOL   10/5/2008 11:19:07 AM
AHOY, dose anyone know if some of the modifications involve conformal surfaces. IMO conformal surfaces that have the same aerodynamic properties of the aircraft in question is one of the things being done. Maybe paints and textures too. G-day!
 
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warpig       10/5/2008 1:07:38 PM
I'd suggest that's highly unlikely.  For one thing, I believe the article indicates (by saying "a little more") that less than (maybe much less than) $1.2million is spent on the "conversion" which hardly seems enough to make changes like that.  If anything is changed, I suggest it has to do with limiting its aero performance in some way, and limiting its avionics, so as to more accurately depict typical MiG-21s.  Even that seems too costly, but I admit that's a barely educated guess and I don't know what is being done.
 
 
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David.R       10/5/2008 2:44:37 PM
why not simply buy a dozen mig 21's ?
 

 
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Rick9719    Why not real Migs   10/5/2008 2:53:08 PM
Probably the Migs are too unreliable.  I am curious if the mods are upgrading or downgrading the F-5 capacity.
 
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bgwillia       10/5/2008 8:30:13 PM

Having worked on F-5E's at RAF Alconbury, both flighline and Phase in the 70's, I believe there were modifications made to the Tigers in the early 80's in the tail and nose.  I's possible the Swiss versions didn't have these modifications and must be added to meet the US standards.

 
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RockyMTNClimber    Constant Peg   10/5/2008 11:03:27 PM

why not simply buy a dozen mig 21's ?



In fact this was done back during the cold war but was too expensive to continue. There is a thread on SP that covers this program which was called "constant peg"

ht***tp://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/6-50866.aspx
 
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mustavaris       10/6/2008 12:24:24 AM

In Finnish operations MiG-21s were proven to be as reliable as Western single engined aircraft (if not more reliable, our records were better than in many countries where they have/had Western aircraft), but there is one "but" - a big one. MiG-21 is very maintenance intensive, it requires a lot of man-hours to keep it in reliable condition. If there´re reliability issues, this is probably the most likely one. The mechanics have to be paid, and when we deal with aircraft we ain´t talking about mechanics with low wages.

 

 

 
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newjarheadean    Electronic Flag   10/6/2008 4:51:28 PM
AHOY, what about sensors that would not physically alter or limit envelope but indicate when to much load is on a given surface thus not equal to MiGs. Like add on video game tech. G- day.
 
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David.R       10/7/2008 11:29:32 AM

Probably the Migs are too unreliable.  I am curious if the mods are upgrading or downgrading the F-5 capacity.

I thought the reliability problem was linked with the service of the planes, good maintenance can do a lot.
 
 
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RockyMTNClimber    USAF: Been There - Done That   10/7/2008 11:42:49 AM



Probably the Migs are too unreliable.  I am curious if the mods are upgrading or downgrading the F-5 capacity.





I thought the reliability problem was linked with the service of the planes, good maintenance can do a lot.

 


As Mustavaris stated earlier, good maintenance (and allot of it) aparently brings out the genuinely positive atributes of the Mig-21. That does not make the idea of maintaining a air wing of them the best use of taxpayer money when it comes to training up combat pilots. The US did operate Mig 21s in the late 70's-early 80's and their program included Mig 17s & Mig 23s as well. It was a interesting experiment but ultimately was not cost effecient according to USAF bean counters.
The F-5 serves in this role just fine and can even be used to simulate other aircraft as well (like early Mirages?).
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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newjarheadean    reinforcing the spin   10/7/2008 6:16:20 PM
AHOY, of course we are all assuming BFM is still part of training. IMO there are no more air Rambo's either.
Really how many pilots dose anyone think can still spot the entry window without a box projected by some visor sensor on the canopy. Envelopes as far as turning rates are long gone. G-day! 

 
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