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Subject: F-35 Fights Back
SYSOP    9/23/2008 5:39:13 AM
 
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colforbin       9/29/2008 10:23:47 AM
so aside from not having the LO features, and the big ass engine, any reason DAS couldn't be slapped onto an f-16 or typhoon?
 
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neiyold    re: Flyingarty   9/29/2008 11:26:23 AM
Actually, I thought the Navy was planning to use the SH as its air superiority fighter.  I had seen a report that detailed this, but dang I cant find it now.  It may not be an F22, but from a CBG rolling into a contested area, who could challenge it?
 
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JFKY    The F-14...   9/29/2008 11:40:15 AM
was hardly an air superiority fighter.  It was a Fleet Defense Fighter, an advanced Interceptor.  It was an Interceptor, that could dog-fight, unlike the F-15 that was designed as a Fighter-Interceptor.  The F-14's engines were never quite in the same league as the F-15's, it did not produce the thrust to weight ratio that F-15's did (source Greg Goebel, Air Vectors).  The F-14 was designed to lug 6 AIM-54's off the deck, out a long range and lob them at Soviet Bombers attacking the CVBG, not mix it up with MIG's.  So, please don't over-estimate the F-14 when it comes to dog-fighting or functioning as a fighter, as opposed to a long-ranged, high powered bomber/missile interceptor, that could also carry AIM-7's or AIM-9's.
 
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nyetneinnon       9/30/2008 12:57:14 AM

so aside from not having the LO features, and the big ass engine, any reason DAS couldn't be slapped onto an f-16 or typhoon?
 Absolutely.  Northrup Grumman could easily team up with say LM or BAE to configure a similar EO SA warning aperture device for F-16 (perhaps in the dorsal spine and a forward/rear looking pod, e.g.) and Typhoon.  No question, just money.
 
Same goes for co-op deal with Boeing for a future block III Super Hornet, e.g. (or even mod for F-15E/K/SG).
 
Maybe it wouldn't have the same power and overall performance of F-35s DAS but it would immensely add SA/operational capability for those said legacy jets.
 
It would probably have to be a smaller/lighter version too.  Call it 'DAS II-B'   lol, (DAS to be)..  stay tuned and def check NG's site for any news on it.
 
p.s. one question I'd have is if the potential for adversarial fighters to somehow be able to blind/disable it using various on-board laser systems exists?  I'm no engineer, but it seems feasible say by 2015?  For every system of course, there is a counter..  Hence the need to be well rounded in superior capabilities (or quantities).
 
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The Lizard King    Tankers   9/30/2008 10:26:55 AM
"The historical experience, even in WWII, was that you

don't win fights by dogfighting: you win by sneaking

up on the opposition, shooting him, and disengaging,"
 
Yes AND you use your stealth to take out all the enemy AWACs and Aerial Tankers.  Even if you do not shoot down enemy planes, they will never have enough fuel to make it back to their bases...
 
 
 
 
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leroy       9/30/2008 2:42:53 PM
"any reason DAS couldn't be slapped onto an f-16 or typhoon?"
 
There are a lot of reasons it would be very difficult to do. The technology obviously exists, but finding a way to fit it into an existing airframe that wasn't designed to hold such a system would be problematic.
 
Those sensors are not particularly small devices, and they need to be situated around the aircraft in such a way that they can provide complete coverage. No existing airframe is going to have space available in the right places for them to fit. Someone would have to engineer a housing or pod system to carry them, and that would be pretty impractical. They would also need power, cooling, wiring, and a computer capable of making use of their input. Assuming you could get that done, you would still need to properly integrate the system with the remaining sensors on the aircraft to achieve a similar level of capability to what will exist on the F-35.
 
These are not minor issues at all. Fighter jets are not like off the shelf computers where you can just buy an upgraded part and swap it in. Such an upgrade would require a lot of new hardware and a lot of new software, both of which would require a lot of money to develop and test. Additional pods or housings would add weight and drag to the aircraft, degrading its performance in other areas.
 
When you get right down to it if you took an F-4, and fitted it with an AESA radar, a helmet mounted sight, a modern EW suite, a new cockpit, new computers, new communications gear, new engines, and a top of the line targeting pod... well you would have a pretty highly capable aircraft.
 
The problem is that by the time you have done that much work you have replaced basically every meaningful component in the aircraft.
 
At some point it makes sense to go with a clean slate approach. That F-4 will never offer the level of capability that a modern design could, even with all the best new equipment crammed inside.
 
That is the situation we have right now with the F-16.(and other 4th generation aircraft) It has already had more or less every single important system replaced or upgraded over the years. It is now covered with extra bumps and housings to hold its new equipment. We could keep trying to find ways to cram new systems into it, but it will never offer the full capability of an F-35.
 
 
 
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kensohaski       10/12/2008 5:58:14 PM
As I trust that the authors are well informed they can dispense with sourcing as it takes up too much room.  They get the best news out the fastest.  There will be some errors. 
 
As readers we have the opportunity to deny or confirm the story.  There is so much military news available these guys have their hands full relating it all to simple civilian pukes like me.  I tend to trust them although I have caught a couple of errors.
 
Kudos to Jim, keep up the good work
 
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