Quoted from someone who was actually at Red Flag 08-4:

 

 

Not so sure about your rosy asssessment.

Ok - so Phaid - whose information is always good - tells us the Rafale suffers from a problem of maintenence due to lack of spares at Red Flag.  This is not new to the French armed forces - for example the Le Clerc battle tank has been short of spares for years and has a very poor track record because of it.

 

But the title of this thread indicates that the Indian Air Force has selected Rafale as its next fighter jet.  In fact, it suggests that the SU-30s were defeated by Rafale. 

 

So - where is the proof?  Are there any articles, stories, anything to back this?  Nothing that I can find.  If you have evidence - show it.  Otherwise we can rack this thread up as yet-another fan boy dreaming that the Rafale will gain an export customer.

Well, the MKIs wouldn't have been defeated by Rafales as such, since they were operating together on the same side.  The Indians did state that, due to the restrictions they were operating under, they suffered a fairly high loss rate particularly to SAMs.  It is possible the Rafales did not, and therefore outperformed the MKIs, but there has been no information released about the Rafale's performance other than the bit the Indians observed about availability.

 

Despite their disadvantage against SAMs, the Indians were very pleased with their performance at Red Flag.  The USAF has offered to allow them to participate regularly in the exercise, so clearly they were able to work and play well with others.

 

In any case there is no evidence whatsoever to support the idea that the Rafale has been selected by India for the 126 fighter contract, based on Red Flag performance or otherwise.

C'mon, we all know Herc doesn't need proof to toss his typical hand grenades.

 

Your post on HtJ made me read a few of Le Zookeeper's - including his admission of his real identity to DJim in his posting on the latest BATMAN movie (what a dork - posting about Batman in an SP forum).

 

I am now forwarned as to who Le Zookeeper really is.

 

Once again - good call and thanks!

In reference to the title of this post...

 

 ... where and when did the Indians announce their selection of, or inclination towards selecting, the Rafale as their next fighter?

Ignore his posts, he's a troll (a casual glance at his history of posting inane and incoherent oneliners is a clue).

 

Rafale, the uber platform, sold to no one outside of France, has a reduced production order even for a captive client that has to buy indigneous product as part of national pride,  and a platform that has world leading sensor systems and ewarfare electronics that don't appear whitepapered in any credible military journos such as JED.

 

Priceless.

 

(and the Indians aren't dumb enough to go and complicate their logistics train any further - they've already been smacked by the ExChequer a few times for indefensible procurement decisions)

 

 

 

While the M2000 is a fine plane - but the IAF pushed it into ground attack, leaving the air to air to the SU-30 and MiG-29.  The M2000 logistics train will do nothing to reduce the expense of the Rafale - which apparently is suffering from its own spare parts shortage already.

 

The IAF did not just go Russian - instead they outfitted these planes with an extensive suite of western electronics.  The Indians are committed to a limited number of modified MiG-29SKs for their carrier duty but have a great opportunity to pick up again on western aircraft.  The recent purchase of C-130s shows they are willing and able to break out.  The Gripen and F-18 are the best shots so far - I suspect the MiG-29 advanced copy may be a bit too risky - especially in the electronics/avionics - considering the Fulcrum performance (they just lost one).

I would not rule out the advanced F-16 - the Indians do have a healthy respect for the Vipers in Pak hands but this options seems unlikely unless LockMart and the USG give them the F-35 later.

 

That said - the Rafale is an overpriced lightweight strike fighter that lacks a laser designator, and no AESA radar.  This puts it last amoung the western competitors and behind the MiG-35 because it still can use legacy MiG-29 parts.  One big reason why Rafale lost the Moroccan bid was sticker shock.  The reported price (over $200 million a copy) put it near the F-22 and nearly twice the price of the JSF.

 

It does not appear that any other orders are near - despite interest from the UAE.  It is quite possible the UAE will decline and go to the Typhoon.  Taiwan is pushing its M2000s into storage due to spares shortages as well - so another order from Paris is unlikely in that direction.  Rafale is out in Tokyo, and South Korea is certainly not interested.  The only real bite so far is Libya and the Russians are making heavy offers for both the MiG-35 and Su-30 in competition.

 

So - the consesus is the Rafale will have a production run of less than 200 - barely a footnote in aviation history.

Last news, the French procurement target is still 294 units. Though economic factors may come into play later, and I'm afraid will (I'm a pessimist when it comes to French politicians ! Plus, well... if you judge an aircraft's importance to its production figures... I guess Concorde is a footnote in aviation history as well !

You are correct - pretty plane but a commerical flop.

FYI - Rafale has NOT been outfitted with Damocles - thus your M2000s had to do all the laser designation during the Afghan combat.  In short, Rafale was nothing but an expensive bomb truck.

The Typhoon has exports - Rafale does not.  Typhoon has already been outfitted and tested with a laser designator.  Rafale has nothing but promises.

 

Rafale has no AESA, no laser designator and no exports.  Despite BWs generous use of space here - the Rafale is destine to end its life as a 4th gen re-hack that is overpriced.  France needs to dump it and get a better design on the boards ASAP or risk being out of the running for any future competitions.