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 News As History - July 25, 2008

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Subject: Rafale and Typhoon export prices revealed.
Shaken    4/10/2008 3:20:15 PM
Aviation Week's Ares Blog has a very interesting post on the price to buy European fighters. Those complaining about increasing Lightning II and even Raptor prices are in for a shock! (ANd maybe a bit of crow consumption).

link

Per aircraft price:
Rafale F.4: 207 million Euros or US$ 327 million
Rafale substandard: 150 million Euros or US$ 237 million (lesser equipment fit for Libya)
Typhoon Tranche 2: 112.5 million Euros or US$ 178 million (cost to Saudi Arabia)

The blog is a bit limited in its description of the configuration and what is loaded into it, but this is end user cost and not loaded with development. (Aircraft pricing falls into the "lies, damn lies and statistics" arena, so caveat emptor). Also, these prices are for deliveries in the 2010-2015 timeframe; doubtlessly flyaway costs of other aircraft will be higher than today (so the recent US$ 135 million Raptor flyaway cost is not an apples to apples comparison).

-- Shaken - out --

 
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Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted

Phaid       4/10/2008 3:42:17 PM
SP's forum thing broke the link, here is a working link.
 
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Softwar    $300 million for a Rafale?   4/10/2008 3:47:47 PM
So all that guff I took from BW about pricing the Rafale at about $180 million a copy was undeserved?  Now we find that the Rafale is priced at over $300 million a copy?  Eeeeeuuuuuuu.....  Dude, even the F-22 is a bargan in comparison.
 
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Yimmy       4/10/2008 4:23:33 PM

Typhoon Tranche 2: 112.5 million Euros or US$ 178 million (cost to Saudi Arabia)
That is not a reflection of the aircraft price - that is a reflection of how high Saudi bribes are - it is common practice to over charge the Saudi's, just to pay the money back from their treasury to their princes.
 
 
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eldnah       4/10/2008 4:58:35 PM
It's hard to determine from the link if the comparisons are apples and oranges. Do all the offers contain the same level of support, spares, training , simulators, weapons, level of equipment...etc? Would each of the F-35 models A,B or C cost the same, for example. Would the price be reduced for a bigger buy? I am not sure how helpful the link is.
 
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Shaken       4/10/2008 5:49:34 PM

(Eldnah)
It's hard to determine from the link if the comparisons are apples and oranges. Do all the offers contain the same level of support, spares, training , simulators, weapons, level of equipment...etc? Would each of the F-35 models A,B or C cost the same, for example. Would the price be reduced for a bigger buy? I am not sure how helpful the link is.

Hence my comments in the last paragraph. But this is true of ALL aircraft pricing. Sometimes prices include munitions, spares and servicing; sometimes it turns out the break-down prices (where the simulator is out on its own) are mis-loaded to make the aircraft look cheaper; sometimes there are subsidies that take cost off the top of the cost. Selling aircraft is a business of national economies and publically stated prices are often deceptive to try to drive relative perceptions. (And this is true for all nations in the aircraft business). At some level no document on aircraft pricing is "helpful".

What we may be able to take away from this is that Rafale and Typhoon are solidly in the "expensive" class of aircraft. We also can infer that Rafale is suffering for not achieving economies of scale that a robust set of export sales would have given. (Although this second point is hardly a surprise and it's really only confirming widely held beliefs).

-- Shaken - out --

 
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dwightlooi       4/13/2008 10:51:17 PM
I couldn't  verify these price claims. But it sounds like contract value per unit rather than unit price of the aircrafts. It may be that someone took the value of a deal and divided it by the number of airframes. This can be a gross;ly inaccurate way of looking at aircraft prices. The "deal" usually include ground equipment, spares, pilot training, logistics training, weapons, maintenance contracts, etc. Typically, the price of a fighter is only between 1/3 to 2/3 that of an acquisition deal.
 
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jessmo_24       4/14/2008 4:26:10 AM

I couldn't  verify these price claims. But it sounds like contract value per unit rather than unit price of the aircrafts. It may be that someone took the value of a deal and divided it by the number of airframes. This can be a gross;ly inaccurate way of looking at aircraft prices. The "deal" usually include ground equipment, spares, pilot training, logistics training, weapons, maintenance contracts, etc. Typically, the price of a fighter is only between 1/3 to 2/3 that of an acquisition deal.


even 1/3 would still make the F-35 a steal. I would really like the "f-35 is to exspensive" crowd to est crow over this
 
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