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Subject: Jet engine endurance
EW3    3/31/2008 6:10:36 PM
If we were able to refuel a GlobalHawk (or any other big UAV) while in flight, how long would it be able to stay aloft before the engine ran into difficulty?
 
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VelocityVector       3/31/2008 6:41:14 PM

For turbines and turbos, look to consumption rate and provision for engine lubricants.  Public info suggests 50-100 hours with the customary 15% margin.  Rotary will be substantially lower because they denature the properties of lubricants at a faster rate in comparision and tend to carry less.  Hope that's worth something.

v^2

 
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Yimmy       3/31/2008 6:46:06 PM
You can always stick a dual prop on a UAV, and only engage one engine and prop at a time - which would provide for greater duration as well as providing redundancy if the working engine were to fail.

The FAA ASW and radar aircraft I forget the name of was like that.

 
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VelocityVector    Y   3/31/2008 7:08:05 PM

Y then is it that we don't see this configuration today?  Because the deadweight and drag penalties suggest a higher efficiency approach.  Even with push-pull config (you avoid some drag due to assymetry) the hull is occupied by an extra system that sees perhaps 50% use per mission.  You're better off eliminating the extra and carrying more oil instead.  I really wish I could post cahrts here.  Cheers.

v^2

 
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Yimmy       3/31/2008 7:38:36 PM

You're better off eliminating the extra and carrying
more oil instead.


A lot more can go wrong with an engine than just running out of oil.


 
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EW3       3/31/2008 8:50:31 PM
If we can overcome the lubricant issue, what is next limiting factor. 
 
Am thinking of something like a globalhawk working with a carrier. 
The transit time to mid-ocean is a pain at gh speeds.  
 
Would make sense to keep the gh on station there as long as possible....
 
It actuall cuts the cost of operation down quite a bit...
 
  
 
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DropBear    Partnerships   3/31/2008 9:23:54 PM
 
Get in bed with other like minded countries (nudge nudge wink wink) and scale up procurement of BAMS/HALE programmes.
 
You could have a global island chain of GH users like USA, Oz, Germany etc. Hand off sectors from one platform to another.
 
Oz is looking to spend approx $6bn on GH and P-8 (about $2bn/$4bn split).
 
Guam, Tindal/Edinburgh, Diego Garcia etc etc etc.
 
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Heorot    Yimmy   4/1/2008 1:57:59 PM

You can always stick a dual prop on a UAV, and only engage one engine and prop at a time - which would provide for greater duration as well as providing redundancy if the working engine were to fail.

The FAA ASW and radar aircraft I forget the name of was like that.


Fairey Gannet
 
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VelocityVector       4/1/2008 6:06:57 PM

You can always stick a dual prop on a UAV, and only engage one engine and prop at a time - which would provide for greater duration as well as providing redundancy if the working engine were to fail.

The FAA ASW and radar aircraft I forget the name of was like that.

Fairey Gannet

Interesting British design.  I believe some of them literally shook apart due to the asymmetric torque placed on the the power transfer mechanism when operated on a single engine. 

Newer engines are tested in static environments for thousands of hours continuous operation with unlimited fuel and lubricant.  In the air, oil capacity is the limiter provided you have aerial refueling. 

Which begs an interesting question I suspect the Brits can resolve.  Why not combine aerial refueling with replenishment of lubricant?  You'd have to heat the pipe to achieve uniform flow but that's about the only real issue with the idea.  Or so I claim ;>)

v^2

 
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