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Subject: Russia Drops Delivery of SU-30s to Algeria
Softwar    3/28/2008 9:17:37 AM
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Russia has decided to halt delivery of SU-30MKI jet fighters to Algeria after the north african nation returned 15 defective MiG-29s.
 
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HoundOfHello    MKI?   3/28/2008 9:54:52 AM
Does Russia export the SU-30 MKI? I was under the impression that the MKI was the Western/Indian enhanced version of the Su-30 that India uses, not the standard Russian export model.

-HoH
 
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HoundOfHello    MKI?   3/28/2008 10:01:36 AM

Does Russia export the SU-30 MKI? I was under the impression that the MKI was the Western/Indian enhanced version of the Su-30 that India uses, not the standard Russian export model.

-HoH

Hmm after a quick perusal of Wikipedia I can see where the confusion was. Apparently the Algerian model was the Su-30 MKA, which was based on the MKI, but with no Israeli or Indian technology, so just French and Russian.

"Su-30MKA
Highly specialised version for Algeria is similar to the MKI, but will principally be equipped with French and Russian avionics. It will feature head-up and multifunction displays from the Thales Group and Sagem of France."
On the article itself:

IMO Russia can't survive in the military export business without good customer service. If they want to remain competitive, they need to learn to please the customer and not sell substandard products and crappy service. With the loss of China and the inevitable loss of India as golden goose markets, Russia needs to realize that low price alone won't ensure them a market particularly since the Rafale and the Gripen are also available to budget buyers. They need the quality and service to survive. Will Algeria go for the Rafale after this? They are on increasingly good terms with France...

-HoH
 
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Softwar       3/28/2008 10:02:10 AM
"MOSCOW, March 28 (RIA Novosti) - Russia has postponed deliveries of Su-30MKI fighter jets to Algeria over non-payment"
 
Right out of the article link - I thought the MKI was an Indian variant too but... hey maybe not.
 
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HoundOfHello       3/28/2008 10:44:26 AM

"MOSCOW, March 28 (RIA Novosti) - Russia has postponed deliveries of Su-30MKI fighter jets to Algeria over non-payment"

 

Right out of the article link - I thought the MKI was an Indian variant too but... hey maybe not.


Yeah I was referring to the author's confusion. Didn't mean to imply that it was your mistake.

Reading further into the article though, the author states that " Irkut Corporation, one of Russia's largest aerospace holding companies, which manufactures Su-30MKs", which I think is correct. The MKI is definitely not manufactured exclusively by Russia as the necessary Israeli equipment is unavailable to them. Wiki's explanation seems credible enough though, so it's the author's mistake/typo.

-HoH
 
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Phaid       3/30/2008 11:42:21 AM
This is actually a pretty serious issue for Russia.  The article, being Russian, doesn't really go into what "inferior quality" means.  What actually happened was that the MiG-29s that were delivered to Algeria were not new build, which is what Algeria paid for, but were intead 15+-year old aircraft that had been kept in storage and refurbished before delivery.  As a result, not only did Algeria not get what it paid for, but the aircraft were pretty quickly unflyable due to deteriorated systems.  So they halted the MiG-29 program, and have now extended this to the Su-30MKA program.

Syria has apparently faced the same types of problems with its recent MiG-29 purchases.

Pulling stuff like this is not smart at a time when China is trying to export its JF-17 and J-10 to the same types of markets.
 
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Yimmy       3/30/2008 7:40:22 PM


Pulling stuff like this is not smart at a time when China is trying to export its JF-17 and J-10 to the same types of markets.

It isn't smart, but in this instance it is not an issue, as the Chinese aircraft uses a Russian engine, which the Chinese can't produce themselves.
 
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HoundOfHello       3/31/2008 11:44:29 AM




Pulling stuff like this is not smart at a time when China is trying to export its JF-17 and J-10 to the same types of markets.


It isn't smart, but in this instance it is not an issue, as the Chinese aircraft uses a Russian engine, which the Chinese can't produce themselves.



Well it is inevitable that the Chinese will one day be able to produce a jet engine in its factories, even if all it ends up being is an exact replica of the Russian one. But I don't think the Chinese will have much success in marketing their products in North Africa, not when there is better quality Western stuff out there and sellers willing to make deals. If I were the Russians, I would be more worried about the Rafale. Not only is there guaranteed quality, but I think that France would be willing to make deals in order to retain influence in its former sphere.

-HoH
 
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Yimmy       3/31/2008 11:56:02 AM
Whether a nation buys Eastern or Western gear is far more likely to be a matter of politics than a matter of what the generals want or which kit is superior.  The Eastern kit being cheaper also stands in their favour for the poorer African states.

And copying a jet engine is not an easy task.  I am no expert of course, but I think it is a matter of metal alloys etc used.  China can't even produce Rolls Royce Spey jet engines, first used in the early 60's, let alone concurrent Russian types.
 
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