The Strategypage is a comprehensive summary of military news and affairs.
 News As History - May 9, 2008

Advertisement


Advertisement


Advertisement



New Strategy - Wargames at Discount Prices
1.Horent Leader
2.Harpoon 4: Modern Tactical Naval Warfare
3.Empires In Arms

4.Gallic Wars
5.Fast Action Battle: The Bulge
6.Campaigns of King David
7.Queen of the Celts
8.Danube Front '85
9.Axis and Allies: Guadalcanal
10.Guns of August

100+ Computer and Board games all with free shipping.
 
 
 

Utah SEO Firm

Xango

Smiley Gifts for Babies

Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
Sign In   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Northrop / EADS wins KC-45 contract
Phaid    3/1/2008 5:59:44 AM
Quoting BusinessWeek, because you still can't put links in the first article of a thread:

Northrop Grumman and Airbus' parent teamed up to beat out the odds-on favorite for a $40 billion contract to supply refueling tankers to the U.S. Air Force

The Air Force tanker award is considered the largest defense contract since the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program of a decade ago. That competition between Boeing and Lockheed Martin (LMT) was ultimately nabbed by Lockheed. The tanker deal comes at a critical time as the Bush Administration defense buildup tapers off over the next several years. The Air Force contract calls for the supply of 179 new refueling tankers to be delivered at a rate of about 15 a year. With the lives of tankers stretching to half a century, maintenance and upgrades could make the value of the contract as much as $100 billion, says Paul Nesbit, a defense industry analyst with JSA Research. "Everyone told us we were crazy, that we had no chance," Northrop CEO Ron Sugar said in an interview. "But we took a big swing and in this case, we hit a home run."

Air Force officials said Friday that the alliance of Northrop and EADS, the parent of Boeing archrival Airbus, won high marks for its capability, past performance, and competitive price. Sue Payton, the Air Force assistant secretary in charge of acquisition, made it clear that the possibility of creating U.S. jobs wasn't a factor. "The key decision was the amount of fuel the bigger plane could carry," UBS (UBS) analyst David Strauss said in an interview. "In the armed services, you can never have too much gas in the air."
 
Quote    Reply
 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title     Sort in Reverse Order Posted

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21   NEXT
Phaid       3/1/2008 6:00:42 AM
Northrop Grumman announcement page.

Whee, my tax dollars at work.

 
Quote    Reply

markrigh    predictable decision   3/1/2008 7:12:17 AM
2 things why boeing lost this major contract are:
-the fact the 767 is obsolete (smaller, less cargo hold, less passenger when u compared it to A330)
-the fact that there was a fraud scandal during the initial biding in 2003

there is something that has to be explained to me. for decades US military companies have been winning almost all major defense contracts in the world (which certainly have cost thousands of jobs for the local defense manufacturers). and now some US lawmakers are crying because some "foreigners" will be attributed the contract??? Man, that's the law of OPEN MARKET! and sometimes u lose... pure arrogance.


 
Quote    Reply

Phaid       3/1/2008 7:50:53 AM
there is something that has to be explained to me. for decades US military companies have been winning almost all major defense contracts in the world (which certainly have cost thousands of jobs for the local defense manufacturers).

What's to explain?  U.S. taxpayer dollars are going to another country.  That offends some people, as well it should.  It offends me, because I don't want my tax dollars going to a foreign company that directly competes with ours.
 
Quote    Reply

giblets       3/1/2008 8:27:40 AM
Will this mean that future USAF fighters will be equiped for hose and drogue refueling? Most fighters cannot accept the high rate of fuel transfer that flying boom can provide (6,000lbs/min , it has to be reduced to 1,000-3,000lbs/min), and it would mean two or three could be fueled at the same time.
Though the flying boom is still superior for larger aircraft, the ability to refuel 2 fighters simultaneously is preferable (Navy pilots expressed a clear preference for RAF tankers over USAF tankers in afghanistan). Apparently 74% of aircraft would experience no reduction in transfer rate with hoses.
A great figure is that it would reduce the time taken for fuel transfer to four aircraft by 75%, and the fuel saved by the tanker not burning fuel for that extra time would be enough for another four aircraft, meaning you would need one less tanker!
 
Quote    Reply

DropBear       3/1/2008 8:39:27 AM
Will this mean that future USAF fighters will be equiped for hose and drogue refueling?
 
This will have no impact on the decision as the A330 stroker will no doubt be similar to the RAAF one with a boom and two wing pods for both styles of transfer.
 
The USAF KC-135R has the ability to stroke probe 7 drogue equipped jets by using the boom as long as it has been fitted with a basket on the ground. Infact, RAAF Bugs used USAF 135's to refuel over Iraq in 2003 as the KC-10 Extender has a basket made of harder steel and actually broke a RAAF Bug's probe off. Subsequently, 135's were used to transfer gravy to our jets. The 135 uses a softer metal alloy in its construction apparently.
 
Ultimately, the USAF will get a great tanker in the A330 and one that can offload more gravy and fly with more cargo pallets than the old B767.
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

giblets       3/1/2008 9:05:12 AM
Appologies Dropbear, I am aware that the KC-45A (as it is now known!) has both systems, I was more suggesting that aircraft such as the F-35A will be start to be equiped with a probe as well as a boom receptacle, allowing them the advantages that using probe and drogue allows with multiple hook ups on the USAF tankers.
 
Quote    Reply

flamingknives       3/1/2008 9:06:46 AM
Never mind, then, that the A330 base aircraft is transferring its production (for tankers and civil aircraft) to the US.

I am frequently stunned by the level of double-think some Americans are capable of.
 
Quote    Reply

dwightlooi       3/1/2008 1:39:24 PM
The A330 is "going out of production" at Airbus to be supplanted by the A350. Production of the KC-45 will be on a US line I believe.

Nonetheless, the Boeing team lost it because they had a scandal. They would already have wrapped up the contract otherwise. The real unfortunate thing is that the USAF had repeatedly stressed (perhaps misleadingly) that they preferred a small aircraft in the 767-class, but ultimately went for a plane with more fuel and more payload. This should really have been a contest between the A330 and the Boeing 777. Nothing carries more load or more fuel or has a longer range than the 777 in the twin aisle class. The 777 would have made a terrific tanker.

 
Quote    Reply

flamingknives       3/1/2008 2:38:53 PM
I've seen comment that the KC-30 bid fulfilled more of the USAF requirements than the Boeing entry.

The size comments are somewhat reminiscent of the CSAR-X competition, but not in Boeing's favour.
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345       3/1/2008 2:58:13 PM

The A330 is "going out of production" at Airbus to be supplanted by the A350. Production of the KC-45 will be on a US line I believe.

Nonetheless, the Boeing team lost it because they had a scandal. They would already have wrapped up the contract otherwise. The real unfortunate thing is that the USAF had repeatedly stressed (perhaps misleadingly) that they preferred a small aircraft in the 767-class, but ultimately went for a plane with more fuel and more payload. This should really have been a contest between the A330 and the Boeing 777. Nothing carries more load or more fuel or has a longer range than the 777 in the twin aisle class. The 777 would have made a terrific tanker.


Expect Northrop Grumman to possibly further redesign that airliner to RATIONALIZE  it to American standards.  There are  many airframe issues that I dislike intensely about the  A-330 civil, as regards its load burdening  in the tanker role.  It will need to be frame strengthened in the cigar for one thing, as well as have a possible redesigned wing box  and vertical stabilizer.The flight avionics will also have to be seriously upgraded over the current A-330 civil before you could consider it a safe tanker. I assume this has already been done in the Australian case for their bird

The B-777 civil as built is infinitely superior as a SAFE airframe in the tanker role BEFORE those A-330 civil necessary mods.

Herald
 
 
Quote    Reply

eldnah       3/1/2008 2:58:22 PM
Well European governments have been illegally subsidizing Airbus for years, now hopefully they'll be illegally subsidizing the US Air Force : )  Apparently Boeing gets two weeks to review the reasons it lost the competition and file a greivence. I suspect the company will come back with a 777 offer as they had been considering this option and would have been stupid not to have such a fall back position .
 
Quote    Reply

benellim4       3/1/2008 3:06:23 PM

The B-777 civil as built is infinitely superior as a SAFE airframe in the tanker role BEFORE those A-330 civil necessary mods.

Herald
 

I would have loved to see a KC-777.

I was reading the KC-X requirements. There was a 7,000ft runway takeoff (objective vice threshold) requirement at ful load. I'm not familiar with civil aviation, can the A330, 767 or 777 actually meet that?
 
Quote    Reply

Herald12345    Data and sources.   3/1/2008 4:09:59 PM
Developing nation: United States of America.
Manufacturer/designer:  Boeing Commercial Airplane Company.
Production line: Everett, WA.
Type aircraft: long and ultra long range widebody airliner.
First flight:

- 777-200 June 12, 1994, N7771.

- 777-200ER October 7, 1996, N5022E.

- 777-200LR March 8, 2005, N60659.

- 777-300 October 16, 1997, N5014K.

- 777-300ER February 24, 2003, N5017V.