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Subject: JSF Purchases - Israel and Singapore Open Talks
Softwar    9/17/2007 9:30:29 AM
Multinational Team Considering Early JSF Buy Numbers Aviation Week & Space Technology 09/17/2007, page 35 A team of top officers from Lockheed Martin and nine partner nations in the $40-billion Joint Strike Fighter development program plan to meet for the first time this month to begin discussions on a coordinated purchase of F-35s designed to stabilize production rates and cost. The partner nations have agreed to varying levels of development funding, though they’ve not yet committed to production numbers. Flyaway price relies heavily on economies of scale. Lockheed Martin officials hope through the so-called “Lightning Strike” effort to get a firm commitment from each country. Negotiations would continue with each individual country on the particulars of their buys, but the aggregate will factor into flyaway cost. The company hopes to get commitments for at least 100 aircraft through 2011, and for another 1,300 through 2018 (including 800 for the U.S.). Though not part of the JSF development program, Israel and Singapore are also in talks to purchase the single-engine fighter. Dan Crowley, Lockheed Martin JSF vice president, says the configuration for those two countries should be finalized by year-end. The international team is expected to report its findings in December, Crowley says.
 
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Herald1234    Yeow, the word is getting out.    9/17/2007 9:38:58 AM
The F-35 surprised a lot in the US by how good it is. I guess the potential customers want to get in on the ground floor before it becomes a seller's market item.
 
And Congress wants to cut the buy...............................idiots.
 
Herald
 
 
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displacedjim       9/17/2007 10:26:57 AM
Singapore and Israel have wanted in for several years, as I assume you know.  So far we've been keeping them at arms distance for at least the reason that we consider them the biggest proliferation risk of any F-35 customers so far.  If there are any countries that would get some sort of "dumbed-down" export version of F-35, it's them.
 
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DarthAmerica       9/17/2007 10:34:04 AM

Singapore and Israel have wanted in for several years, as I assume you know.  So far we've been keeping them at arms distance for at least the reason that we consider them the biggest proliferation risk of any F-35 customers so far.  If there are any countries that would get some sort of "dumbed-down" export version of F-35, it's them.


I hope we have though this one through.
 
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gf0012-aust       9/17/2007 10:56:48 AM

Singapore and Israel have wanted in for several years, as I assume you know.  So far we've been keeping them at arms distance for at least the reason that we consider them the biggest proliferation risk of any F-35 customers so far.  If there are any countries that would get some sort of "dumbed-down" export version of F-35, it's them.



we had our own problems with Singapore a few years back.  There was some substantial feeling that they were hoovering info for the israelis and french. at one stage we were directed and reccomended not to discuss tech issues with them.  There were a few tech projects where they were shut out very quickly. Arty Engineer would be aware of the problems with them over cloning the M777.
 
 
 
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Satorian       9/17/2007 12:30:19 PM

The F-35 surprised a lot in the US by how good it is.
Has a production-representative airframe flown yet?
 
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DarthAmerica       9/17/2007 12:39:01 PM




The F-35 surprised a lot in the US by how good it is.


Has a production-representative airframe flown yet?


Yes.
 
ht*p://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/F35FL12156.xml
 
-DA
 
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dwightlooi       9/17/2007 4:58:43 PM








The F-35 surprised a lot in the US by how good it is.




Has a production-representative airframe flown yet?



Yes.

 

ht*p://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/F35FL12156.xml

 

-DA

Actually, no. The F-35 AA-1 is not production representative.

The AA1 is built to the pre-2004 weight reduction specifications. The AF-1 will fly in Q2 2008. The AF-1 will be the production representative F-35A. Among the changes are a weight reduction, dual front gear doors instead of the single door on the AA-1, further refined intakes, completely revised wing mate joints, revised upper fuselage loft, smaller vertical tails and implementation of the exhaust nozzle area stealth features.

The weight reduction efforts shaved 1.2 tons off the F-35B and it is expected that between 1/3 and 1/2 of those savings will be applied to the F-35A and C as well. Before the reduction efforts, the F-35A is 13.1 tons and the B is 14.7 tons. They now expect the F-35A to be <12.7 tons and the B to be close to 13.5 tons.
 
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DarthAmerica       9/17/2007 5:07:12 PM
















The F-35 surprised a lot in the US by how good it is.






Has a production-representative airframe flown yet?





Yes.



 



ht*p://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=awst&id=news/F35FL12156.xml



 



-DA



Actually, no. The F-35 AA-1 is not production representative.

The AA1 is built to the pre-2004 weight reduction specifications. The AF-1 will fly in Q2 2008. The AF-1 will be the production representative F-35A. Among the changes are a weight reduction, dual front gear doors instead of the single door on the AA-1, further refined intakes, completely revised wing mate joints, revised upper fuselage loft, smaller vertical tails and implementation of the exhaust nozzle area stealth features.

The weight reduction efforts shaved 1.2 tons off the F-35B and it is expected that between 1/3 and 1/2 of those savings will be applied to the F-35A and C as well. Before the reduction efforts, the F-35A is 13.1 tons and the B is 14.7 tons. They now expect the F-35A to be <12.7 tons and the B to be close to 13.5 tons.


Thanks for the correction. I was under the assumption that this was actually a production F-35A when in fact its a test aircraft. FS, BW pay attention because I'm going to do something very different for both of you...
       I WAS WRONG
 
       -DA
 
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dwightlooi       9/17/2007 8:17:59 PM


Thanks for the correction. I was under the assumption that this was actually a production F-35A when in fact its a test aircraft. FS, BW pay attention because I'm going to do something very different for both of you...

       I WAS WRONG

 

       -DA

Actually, I made a mistake on the post too. It is the F-35-BF-1 (STOVL) prototype which will fly in Q2 2008 not the AF-1. The BF-1 will be production representative and includes all of the above mentioned refinements and lightening. The BF-1 is currently being assembled and the flight release engine is being tested and ahead of schedule.

The AF-1 (CTOL) and the CF-1 (CTOL) will fly later in 2008 and in 2009. At total of 2 production representative prototypes will be completed by the end of 2007, 14 by 2008 and 33 by 2009. By IOC in 2012, there will be 230 F-35s flying, of which 16 will be developmental prototypes and 214 being service aircrafts.

Production is planned to ramp up to 130 aircrafts per year with a line capacity of 180 aircrafts per year and this volume is expected to be sustained for a decade or longer.


 
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Shaken       9/19/2007 12:45:46 AM





Thanks for the correction. I was under the assumption that this was actually a production F-35A when in fact its a test aircraft. FS, BW pay attention because I'm going to do something very different for both of you...

       I WAS WRONG
       -DA
Actually, I made a mistake on the post too. It is the F-35-BF-1 (STOVL) prototype which will fly in Q2 2008 not the AF-1. The BF-1 will be production representative and includes all of the above mentioned refinements and lightening. The BF-1 is currently being assembled and the flight release engine is being tested and ahead of schedule.

The AF-1 (CTOL) and the CF-1 (CTOL) will fly later in 2008 and in 2009. At total of 2 production representative prototypes will be completed by the end of 2007, 14 by 2008 and 33 by 2009. By IOC in 2012, there will be 230 F-35s flying, of which 16 will be developmental prototypes and 214 being service aircrafts.

Production is planned to ramp up to 130 aircrafts per year with a line capacity of 180 aircrafts per year and this volume is expected to be sustained for a decade or longer.

The cool thing about AA-1 is it is very close to the production aircraft. The aerodynamics are only a tiny bit different (the vertical stabilizer is just not that important to a modern fighter). More importantly, the electronics ARE representative. Since the avionics are the highest complexity / highest risk item on the program, AA-1 allowed the program to move forward with very little slow-down caused the weight reduction effort. Also, since it is a good deal out in front of the production-representative prototypes, any major issues (like the electrical short that has AA-1 grounded at the moment) can be sorted out before the bulk of the test aircraft are built.

[Everyone should be reminded that the X-35 was never intended as a prototype. It was an X-plane technology demonstrator, intended to prove out the STOVL propulsion concepts and the core approaches for making the three mode (CTOL/CV/STOVL) common airframe].

-- Shaken - out --
 
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