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Subject: Israel Selects F-35
Softwar    9/15/2007 11:43:34 AM
Aviation Week, Sept. 10, 2007, page 20 The Israeli military has unveiled a defense spending plan that should take effect in January. The plan, called "Tefen," emphasizes improving ground forces, which is a priority in the wak of preceived shortcoming during last year's war in Lebanon. For the air force, the modernization plan calls for acquistion of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, as well as further unmanned aircraft,
 
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TDidier       9/15/2007 11:58:48 AM

Aviation Week, Sept. 10, 2007, page 20

The Israeli military has unveiled a defense spending plan that should take effect in January. The plan, called "Tefen," emphasizes improving ground forces, which is a priority in the wak of preceived shortcoming during last year's war in Lebanon. For the air force, the modernization plan calls for acquistion of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, as well as further unmanned aircraft,

:))
The plan call for a minimum F35 procurement. From 100 during past years to "only" 25, with a service during 2015/2016 rather 2014. Maybe no long to wait until they announce that they don't need this aircrafct...   
 
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dwightlooi       9/15/2007 2:18:53 PM


:))

The plan call for a minimum F35 procurement. From 100 during past years to "only" 25, with a service during 2015/2016 rather 2014. Maybe no long to wait until they announce that they don't need this aircrafct...   


I don't think its a matter of the Israeli not needing or wanting the F-35. Rather, it is that they can't afford everything that they want and right now the political and tactical pressure is for a rapid infusion of infantry body armor and tank anti-rpg systems rather than for hardware to further ensure air dominance which the Israeli already enjoy and will continue to enjoy for at least a significant number of years.

When advanced SUs and the Typhoon start showing up in the middle-east it more than token numbers Israel will realize that it absolutely needs the F-35 to shoot them down with ease.
 
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Softwar       9/15/2007 2:25:17 PM
Knowing the IAF boys like I do - I figure they want the F-35 in numbers to replace the F-16s and they will get them when Syria starts to bone up her air defenses.  The F-15 strike this week is a sample of what the IAF wants to do in the future no matter the double or triple digit Sams and Sukhoi jets.  They want the JSF and put it in the budget.  This has Lockheed tickled pink.
 
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french stratege       9/15/2007 4:23:15 PM
Israel want a minimum autonomy and the problem with F35 that it is end of Israel minimal autonomy.
With F35 Israel can not modify aircraft or use them without US approval.
Unless USA give to Israel same access right than UK including softwar.
With F35 USA could easily implement sofwtare which limit action range of Israelis.
Imagine Israeli try to bomb Iran with their F35 without US notice, and F35 come back automatically to its base when Israel jet cross Iraq border.LOL
 
 
 
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DarthAmerica       9/15/2007 4:35:21 PM

Israel want a minimum autonomy and the problem with F35 that it is end of Israel minimal autonomy.

With F35 Israel can not modify aircraft or use them without US approval.

Unless USA give to Israel same access right than UK including softwar.

With F35 USA could easily implement sofwtare which limit action range of Israelis.

Imagine Israeli try to bomb Iran with their F35 without US notice, and F35 come back automatically to its base when Israel jet cross Iraq border.LOL

 

Just like the F-16 and F-15 came back from bombing Iraq's reactor right?
-DA

 
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french stratege       9/15/2007 4:42:10 PM
Just like the F-16 and F-15 came back from bombing Iraq's reactor right?
Electronic has changed.It was simply not possible to implement this possibility at F16/ F15 time.
It is quite easy with aircraft of F35 or Rafale generation with full integrated avionic including flight control, and sophisticated autopilot.
You can easily implement software boundaries.
How can you be such ignorant DA on modern technology?
 
 
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DarthAmerica       9/15/2007 4:47:16 PM


Just like the F-16 and F-15 came back from bombing Iraq's reactor right?
Electronic has changed.It was simply not possible to implement this possibility at F16/ F15 time.

It is quite easy with aircraft of F35 or Rafale generation with full integrated avionic including flight control, and sophisticated autopilot.

You can easily implement software boundaries.

How can you be such ignorant DA on modern technology?


Of course we had to find a way to insert the Rafale into the discussion right? Look, I didn't say its not possible to remotely pilot a plane. But by your logic, no country should ever import anything right? I guess one day you are going to find out France is blind when we shut down your AWACs and Fly away your tankers right? Lets see if you can figure this out.
 
-DA
 
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french stratege       9/15/2007 5:03:56 PM
Impossible for French AWACs because:
A: AWACS use analog mechanical flight control
B: we have the software as it was pre requirement to buy them.In fact it is a french software different of USA for several part because USA do not want to know what ECCM they use and as well for us in reciprocity.
USA had sell us also the whole maintenance package according to official document of Senat..
We are not stupid or powerless.
 
If Israel do not have software, they have no free use and it was WHY UK threatened to withdraw F35 program if they don't have access.But until now only UK have obtained this right..
We don't buy US systems which could be controlled by sofwtare and it is mandatory we know what is in the software.
If US refuse, we don't buy or develop or our system or find an other supplier which would accept it.
 
I don't think that today DOD would accept Israel to get the software.
 
F35 is a marvelous Trojan horse.
With its ESM and integrated avionic, USA can even spy Israeli systems like Israli radars or ECM used by Israeli modified fighters like F15 or F16 and transmit data to USA without Israelis could notice it.
Or learn from israeli tactics or activity  automatically
Or redirect to a USA base a F35 in flight with its Israeli pilot prisonner in the cockpit etc..
 
 
 
 
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DarthAmerica    More Rope FS   9/15/2007 5:12:32 PM

B: we have the software as it was pre requirement to buy them.In fact it is a french software different of USA for several part because USA do not want to know what ECCM they use and as well for us in reciprocity.

USA had sell us also the whole maintenance package according to official document of Senat..

We are not stupid or powerless.

So French people know how to secure their defence investments BUT ANYBODY ELSE IS A VASSAL strapping themselves into a flying prison cell right? That is what you are saying.
-DA

 
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french stratege       9/15/2007 5:12:56 PM
It is here that the Lavi program could have been the right investement for Israel.
If USA don't give F35 software code I think that Israel will restart LAVI with improvment in stealth and modern avionic even it cost them a lot.
The LAVI program was done for that.
 
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