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Subject: Rafale to see combat in March
Phaid    2/16/2007 11:36:29 AM
Here is my tranlation of yesterday's article in Liberation concerning the Rafale's first combat deployment to Afghanistan. Link to follow. "Baptism of fire for the Rafales. The military is preparing to send five of these combat aircraft to Afghanistan, where they will provide close air support for NATO forces fighting against the Taliban. This will be the first real operational depployment of this new combat aircraft, which recently entered service. Three Rafale of the armee de l'air will be stationed at the Dushanbe air base in Tajikistan in mid-March. At the same time, two Rafales of the Marine Nationale will join the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle, which is deployed off the coast of Pakistan. These five aircraft will operate over Afghanistan. The Armee de l'Air and the Marine Nationale are currently in the final stages of trials to permit the Rafale to drop laser-guided weapons. Indeed, in its initial version, and for budgetary reasons, the aircraft lacked this capability, which is nonetheless indispensable in all modern conflicts. Each Rafale can carry a payload of up to six 250kg (500 lb) bombs, but the target on the ground must be illuminated by another aircraft, either a Mirage 2000 or a Super Etendard. These air strike operations are in no way hypothetical. Since 2002, French aircraft have regularly participated in offensive missions in Afthanistan. With the declining situationon the ground, the Armee de l'Air has thus dropped 25 bombs since May of 2006. The last such attack took place Tuesday, with a Mirage 2000D dropping bombs at the request of Canadian special forces. For several months, a rivalry has existed between the Marine Nationale and the Armee de l'Air, each hoping to be the first to use the Rafale in combat. In the end, they will do it jointly. At Dassault, this deployment is being celebrated, as in the eyes of the manufacturer it should allow them to convince potential clients to buy the fighter-bomber. After several defeats (Netherlands, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Singapore), Dassault is hoping for sales in Switzerland, Greece, India, Morocco, and Libya."
 
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Phaid       2/16/2007 11:37:58 AM
Here is the original article....
 
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RockyMTNClimber    Bon Voyage   2/16/2007 11:46:48 AM
 
I hope they do well and everyone gets home safe.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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DarthAmerica       2/16/2007 1:16:51 PM
Thanks Phaid for this post. This is good news for the Rafale. An actual combat deployment in direct support of troops will allow Dassault to refine the Rafale in a real world environment that will present situations that are impractical to simulate. The end result will pay off huge. Any idea how long it will be before the Rafale is able to self designate or deploy satellite guided weapons specifically AASM?


DA
 
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Das Kardinal       2/16/2007 4:51:13 PM

Thanks Phaid for this post. This is good news for the Rafale. An actual combat deployment in direct support of troops will allow Dassault to refine the Rafale in a real world environment that will present situations that are impractical to simulate. The end result will pay off huge. Any idea how long it will be before the Rafale is able to self designate or deploy satellite guided weapons specifically AASM?


DA


Regarding AASM, the Rafale F2 (the one going to Afghanistan) has already done testing. According to the Air Fan december issue, Rafales did some simulated attacks (cued by Spectra) with AASM mock-ups against a SAM battery during the Spain Tiger Meet. Basically, since AASMs don't need any external designation (GPS-INS guidance) current Rafales are able to drop them. Of course, those AASMs need to be procured first...
Regarding LGBs, their use was tested too, with integration of the Damocles pod to the Rafale. It works, problem is, there's no Damocles pod in service in the AdA. Another thing that needs to be procured too!

Anyway. This deployment is good news. Not only for the Rafale, but also for the French commitment on the war against radical islam. 
 
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french stratege       2/16/2007 6:43:57 PM
Small wars like Iraq or Afghanistan are not really war testing for an aircraft except on maintenance issues and to test communication equipement and GtoA/AtoG procedures.
 And any deploiement for realistic training oversea bring same benefit.
But today aircraft are extensively tested.
These kind of wars where there is no real opposition or modern airdefense do not prove anything.
A F105 with a laser pod, a GPS and a modern radio would do the same.
I said it for F15,F16 or F18 which never seen real combat a part for fighting in overwhelming numbers, subpar aircrafts with sub par missiles, manned by subpar pilots, and not supported by any decent systems like AWACs.
The last time western aircraft were confronted vs a ennemy not too bad on equipement was in Yom Kippour war and in a less extend, clash between Syrian and israelis in 1982.
Since any air war were jokes for western camp and prove nothing.As for MTB.
 
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french stratege       2/16/2007 6:45:21 PM
Now, it is good for image that rafale do not stay an hangar queen.
 
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doggtag    Rafale goodies   2/16/2007 7:00:13 PM
If people here will lend credibility to these sites' claims,
 
(Airforce-Technology.Com): http://www.airforce-technology...
WEAPONS

The Rafale can carry payloads of over 9t on 14 hardpoints for the Air Force version, and 13 for the naval version. The range of weapons includes: Mica, Magic, Sidewinder, ASRAAM and AMRAAM air-to-air missiles; Apache, AS30L, ALARM, HARM, Maverick and PGM100 air-to-ground missiles; and Exocet/AM39, Penguin 3 and Harpoon anti-ship missiles.

For a strategic mission the Rafale can deliver the MBDA (formerly Aerospatiale) ASMP standoff nuclear missile. In December 2004, the MBDA Storm Shadow / Scalp EG stand-off cruise missile was qualified on the Rafale.

In September 2005, the first flight of the MBDA Meteor BVRAAM beyond visual range air-to-air missile was conducted on a Rafale fighter. In December 2005, successful flight trials were carried out from the Charles de Gaulle of the range of Rafale's weapon systems – Exocet, Scalp-EG, Mica, ASMP-A (to replace the ASMP) and Meteor missiles.

From 2007, the Rafale will also be armed with the Sagem AASM precision-guided bomb, which has both GPS/inertial guidance and, optionally, imaging infrared terminal guidance.

The Rafale has a twin-gun pod and a GIAT 30mm DEFA 791B cannon which can fire 2,500 rounds per minute.

The Rafale is equipped with laser designation pods for laser guidance of air-to-ground missiles.
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(Nice to see that, contrary to any Rafale opponents, there does appear to be capability for both US- and UK- sourced weapons (not solely French ordnance). And naturally, since there is a carrier variant, it does come with anti-ship missile integration, contrary to something I read elsewhere recently...)
-----
 
(and a pdf direct from Dassault Aviation itself, if marketing flyers from the manufacturer are to be trusted): http://www.dassault-aviation.c...
 
 
 
 
 
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Herald1234    You take what you can get.   2/16/2007 7:00:23 PM
The Beka Valley Turkey Shoot validated the Eagle.

I seriously doubt that the Rafale will fail air to mud in whatever Afghan context she fights. Its a good aircraft with that kind of mission built into her as part of her mission capability. It will be an operational gauge under "combat" conditions. Not everything is A2A, FS. You'll get real world optempo readiness and oncall responsiveness measures at last on the Rafale to the main mission a western air force practices after it shoots the other guy out of the sky; CAS for the soldiers fighting the ground war. That is not something you can really measure in an "exercise".

It is something[real combat data] Dassault needs to package in its sales pitch. A purchase commission looks at combat data.  Its why Russia could say to RoK, we have Sukhoi combat data A2A against MiGs and in the CAS mission in the Eritrea War, whereas the best Dassault could do was cite air combat exercises.

Herald  

 
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doggtag       2/16/2007 7:21:09 PM

It is something[real combat data] Dassault needs to package in its sales pitch. A purchase commission looks at combat data.  Its why Russia could say to RoK, we have Sukhoi combat data A2A against MiGs and in the CAS mission in the Eritrea War, whereas the best Dassault could do was cite air combat exercises.

Herald  

Could this be what's finally needed to get customers?
Seems Gripen managed to do it without any credible combat record.
 
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Herald1234       2/16/2007 7:32:47 PM

If people here will lend credibility to these sites' claims,

 

(Airforce-Technology.Com): link...
WEAPONS

The Rafale can carry payloads of over 9t on 14 hardpoints for the Air Force version, and 13 for the naval version. The range of weapons includes: Mica, Magic, Sidewinder, ASRAAM and AMRAAM air-to-air missiles; Apache, AS30L, ALARM, HARM, Maverick and PGM100 air-to-ground missiles; and Exocet/AM39, Penguin 3 and Harpoon anti-ship missiles.


For a strategic mission the Rafale can deliver the MBDA (formerly Aerospatiale) ASMP standoff nuclear missile. In December 2004, the MBDA Storm Shadow / Scalp EG stand-off cruise missile was qualified on the Rafale.


In September 2005, the first flight of the MBDA Meteor BVRAAM beyond visual range air-to-air missile was conducted on a Rafale fighter. In December 2005, successful flight trials were carried out from the Charles de Gaulle of the range of Rafale's weapon systems – Exocet, Scalp-EG, Mica, ASMP-A (to replace the ASMP) and Meteor missiles.


From 2007, the Rafale will also be armed with the Sagem AASM precision-guided bomb, which has both GPS/inertial guidance and, optionally, imaging infrared terminal guidance.


The Rafale has a twin-gun pod and a GIAT 30mm DEFA 791B cannon which can fire 2,500 rounds per minute.


The Rafale is equipped with laser designation pods for laser guidance of air-to-ground missiles.

-----

(Nice to see that, contrary to any Rafale opponents, there does appear to be capability for both US- and UK- sourced weapons (not solely French ordnance). And naturally, since there is a carrier variant, it does come with anti-ship missile integration, contrary to something I read elsewhere recently...)

-----

(and from FAS.Org): link...
 

(and a pdf direct from Dassault Aviation itself, if marketing flyers from the manufacturer are to be trusted): link...
 
____________________________________________________________

The claims in red are if the US supplies the sourcecode and the weapon matching interfaces. This the Rafale does not currently have, not even for SIDEWINDER.

Herald
 

 

 
 
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