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Subject: Rafale AESA and Supercruise
Bluewings    3/30/2006 5:33:18 PM
Since few US posters don 't believe what FrenchStratege and myself are saying , it is time to clear ANY doubt on some important issues . Rafale HAS an AESA radar and Rafale CAN supercruise . #1: AESA : "In April 2002, the DGA, the French defence procurement agency, appointed Thales to develop an active array radar demonstrator optimised for the Rafale omnirole fighter. Called DRAA (Démonstrateur Radar à Antenne Active, or Active Array Radar Demonstrator), the programme culminated in a series of demanding flight tests to validate its detection performance. Although the development schedule was extremely tight, the DRAA met all programme milestones on time. This Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) demonstrator will pave the way to a production equipment for the Rafale. With the adoption of an active antenna, RBE2 radar performance will be even further increased : detection and tracking ranges will be significantly improved, angular coverage will be considerably expanded and reliability will be boosted to unprecedented levels. Test-flying the DRAA In December 2002, the first flight of the AESA system was carried out in a Mystere XX flying test bed belonging to the French MoD located in the Flight Test Centre at Cazaux (South-West of France). Subsequently, the DRAA demonstrator was fitted to two-seat production Rafale B301. ?For us, it was essential to prove to our customers that we could easily fit a new array to the existing RBE2 hardware, stresses Jean-Marc Goujon, Rafale Radar Programme Manager. As such, one of the main goals of the DRAA programme was to demonstrate that the new array could easily be fitted to the B301?s current RBE2 electronic scanning radar without any modifications of the whole radar architecture. This modification was a total success, Thales and Dassault engineers being able to complete the task in less than three hours! This is a considerable achievement that proves impossible for our competitors who would have to completely redesign and rebuild their radar sets to accommodate an AESA.? The first flight in Rafale B301 was recorded from Istres in May 2003. During the comprehensive flight test programme, the fully integrated Band X DRAA radar successfully transmitted, received and collected radar data, confirming all Thales prediction, a clear indication that the company totally masters AESA technology " **************************** #2: SUPERCRUISE : (From 2 Pilots of the 12F Squadron onboard CdG) «The Rafale is ideal for the job, stresses one of the two duty pilots. It can climb to 40,000 feet in under two minutes and accelerate very rapidly to supersonic speed. More significantly, it can super-cruise in dry power, even with four missiles and a belly drop tank. Endurance is excellent too, and we can stay airborne up to two hours with one tank.» The pilots also praise the Rafale?s advanced man-machine interface which considerably reduces their workload" ****************************************************** I hope is it clear for everybody . As usual , I can upload the Pdf. file for your enjoyement . Cheers .
 
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leroy    RE:Rafale AESA and Supercruise   3/30/2006 6:44:30 PM
"I'll believe the supercruise part, but how fast can it actually fly when supercruising? " Don't, they haven't managed to demonstrate the capability in the real world. "Though current Rafale variants are claimed to be capable of supercruise, the aircraft was unable to demonstrate this during the Singapore evaluation, and many sources suggest that the aircraft is only marginally capable of supercruise, with light weapons loads and under certain atmospheric conditions, though a planned engine upgrade should, according to some sources , remove this limitation and allow the Rafale to supercruise with more realistic loads at around Mach 1.4." The above quote is from Wikipedia, but it is accurate. Supercruise on Rafale is yet another "maybe in the future" capability. The new engines are NOT funded as of today. "I used to think "supercruise" was a big deal. Then I realized it was all spin." It is a big deal. The fact that an F-22 can exceed M 1.7 without even resorting to afterburners means that as a partical matter it is nearly twice as fast as its competition. This allows the F-22 to dictate the terms of the engagement. It will enter the fight where and when it wants, and it will leave the fight where and when it wants.
 
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leroy    RE:Rafale AESA and Supercruise   3/30/2006 6:46:58 PM
"For a full review (Who stipulate that the components ARE FRENCH and that the AESA is available TODAY , please download the following files , thank you " From my original post and sourced to Janes: "In fact, an AESA flew on Rafale in May 2003. According to Ramstein, a migration to AESA has been considered from the early days of the programme, and the RBE2 is designed so that an AESA front end can replace the current passive antenna and TWT. Power and cooling are adequate for the job. A programme called Demonstrateur de Radar a l?Antenne Active started in 2000, and the radar flew on a Falcon in late 2002 before flying in Rafale B301. ?It was a difficult integration, taking two or three days,? joked Ramstein. The problem, however, is that DRAA relied on US-sourced high-powered processing chips-which, after Korea and the Iraq war, no longer seemed like a good idea. A new AESA version of the RBE2, DRAAMA, using all European technology, was launched in July 2004 and will be ready for 2007-2008. ?We have a firm commitment to AESA, which allows us to propose it for export,? Ramstein says." ?It was reported that the original RBE2 AESA demonstrator was built using US-made Transmit/Receive (T/R) modules, whereas the new contract is intended to demonstrate the feasibility and benefits of equipping Rafale with an AESA based on European technology. It also covers risk assessment associated with radar integration and in-flight operational testing. The new AESA variant of the RBE2 is intended to enter service with the French Air Force in 2012 as part of the next-generation F4 configuration? BW, you are quite simply full of crap. I am sick and tired of hearing you and FS make up one "fact" after another about the Rafale without even a hint of proof.
 
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leroy    RE:Rafale AESA and Supercruise   3/30/2006 6:48:47 PM
"But as I said earlier , it doesn 't make any sense to fit the actual AESA on Rafale now " This is the definition of sour grapes dude. You don't have it now because either you don't have a working design yet, or you can't build it yet. If you Could have an AESA right now you might have had a chance in Singapore, S Korea, and the UAE...
 
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Bluewings    RE:Rafale AESA and Supercruise   3/30/2006 6:54:42 PM
"I'll believe the supercruise part, but how fast can it actually fly when supercruising?" I am having a hard time to find a Pdf. who quotes the official speed . But from what I 've heard it is Mach1.21 . "Also, what is the combat radius reduction? Even if you can push your aircraft that fast, external ordinance and belly tank will cause alot of drag." I have no idea at this time . I 'look for it ... Cheers .
 
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leroy    RE:Rafale AESA and Supercruise   3/30/2006 6:57:49 PM
"3 hours? Well thats assuming nothing goes wrong......because I consider that to be a very optimistic number." It is just more BS from him... they don't even have a radar to fit. "the GDTAR Consortium of BAE, EADS, and Thales are already at work on an AESA replacement: the Airborne Multi-mode Solid-state Airborne Radar (AMSAR). If all goes well, AMSAR may be ready for fielding by 2010-2011." link
 
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Bluewings    RE:Rafale AESA and Supercruise   3/30/2006 7:03:22 PM
Leroy , or you believe Journalists , or you believe the French Gvt. and the French DOD . Singapor : maybe I shouldn 't say this here , but NOT being under ANY French contracts or ANY French Authority , I tell you something : To reach Supercruise , Rafale has to use Post-Combustion . Same with Typhoon . And THAT has not been accepted by the Sings . They wanted to see an Aircraft able to reach Supercruise WITHOUT using PC . Please , stop trusting Wiki . Anyone who is a member can upload stuff for Wiki for cry out loud ! Cheers .
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Rafale AESA and Supercruise   3/30/2006 7:13:28 PM
>>>To reach Supercruise , Rafale has to use Post-Combustion . Same with Typhoon . And THAT has not been accepted by the Sings . They wanted to see an Aircraft able to reach Supercruise WITHOUT using PC .<<< ---LOL the F-18, F-16, F-15, F-14, EE, F-104, Mig-25, Mig-31, Mig-29, SU-27 and many others could all do that. This is not supercruise as it is understood today.
 
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hybrid    RE:Rafale AESA and Supercruise   3/30/2006 7:15:42 PM
BW I'll help with some parts here: Performance specs from wiki Performance * Maximum speed: Mach 1.8+ (2,130 km/h, 1,320 mph) * Range: 1,800 km (1,120 mi)** * Service ceiling: 18,000 m (60,000 ft) * Climb rate: 333 m/sec (65,550 ft/min) * Wing loading: 326 kg/m² (66.6 lb/ft²) * Thrust/weight: 0.63:1 **Note Dassault says this is their radius of action for a penetration mission However here link Suggests the combat radius is smaller, approximately 925km but then later on goes on resuggest that the combat radius is greater than 1000nm. So I'd say it depends on combat loadout but lets assume 1000nm for right.
 
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Bluewings    RE:Rafale AESA and Supercruise   3/30/2006 7:23:05 PM
Hybrid , some of your quotes are incorrect : *Max speed :mach2.2 (cannot go faster or RAM materials suffer) *Climb rate :350m/s (with M88-2 stage 4 , 360m+/s with M88-3) Cheers .
 
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Bluewings    RE:Rafale AESA and Supercruise   3/30/2006 7:26:29 PM
DA , none of the Aircrats you mentionned can MAINTAIN supercruise in dry thrust . Cheers .
 
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