How would Su-30 MKIs fare against export (Saudi) Typhoons?

Email Me When A New Comment Is Made
Show Only Poster Name and Title Newest to Oldest

Pages: PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT

Phaid RE:SU-30MKI specs + interview with RAF pilot about the SU-27 -Djim 3/3/2006 3:25:41 PM

I wouls argue that a SU-30MKI would have at least equal detection range on a Typhoon if not greated in some cases. This has nothing to do with dish size BTW. Why? The SU has an absolutely massive RCS, whereas the Typhoon is well documented as having lots of RCS reduction measures that put it in the same ballpark as the Rafale and the Super Hornet. And there's nothing wrong with the Typhoon's CAPTOR radar in terms of pure detection performance; it will easily see a massive radar target like the SU well before the SU can see the Typhoon, regardless of which set has the greatest absolute range. If we assume that the SU-30MKI and Typhoon are piloted by equal pilots, with no offboard support, I can't see how the SUs have much of a chance. They'll get killed in BVR well before the merge, because of the Typhoons' awareness and weapons advantages. If the fight goes WVR, the odds narrow to the point where basically whichever side survived to the merge with the most aircraft will win. In real life though, I wouldn't give the Typhoons much of a chance. The Typhoons would have to be flown by either Saudi "advisers" or hastily-trained PAF pilots. Saudi pilots are at an enormous training disadvantage -- about 36 hours a year flight time, compared to the average Indian pilot who gets 180-200 hours. Unless the PAF pilots went to the UK for some serious training first, they'd be in real trouble.

Quote Reply

ArtyEngineer RE:SU-30MKI specs + interview with RAF pilot about the SU-27 -Phaid 3/3/2006 3:29:11 PM

"the Typhoon is well documented as having lots of RCS reduction measures that put it in the same ballpark as the Rafale and the Super Hornet." - Phaid Is it? can you give some links? I honestly thought that RCS reduction on the Typhoon was NOT in the same ballpark as the Rafale and Super Hornet.

Quote Reply

Phaid RE:SU-30MKI specs + interview with RAF pilot about the SU-27 -Phaid 3/3/2006 3:39:33 PM

For purposes of comparison against an SU-30MKI, yes, Typhoon's frontal RCS is in the same ballpark. It's generally safe to assume that at BVR ranges, the frontal RCS of those three aircraft is low enough that weapons carriage becomes more of an RCS issue than the airframe itself. This is absolutely not the case for the SU-30MKI.

Quote Reply

displacedjim RE:SU-30MKI specs + interview with RAF pilot about the SU-27 -Djim 3/3/2006 3:56:18 PM

"I wouls argue that a SU-30MKI would have at least equal detection range on a Typhoon if not greated in some cases. This has nothing to do with dish size BTW." -- DA ---- I don't know enough about Eurofighter to dispute you, so I'll at least believe you could be right. Displacedjim

Quote Reply

DarthAmerica RE:SU-30MKI specs + interview with RAF pilot about the SU-27 -Djim 3/3/2006 4:18:29 PM

Here is why I think I am correct. Anyone feel free to disagree. CAPTOR is an extremely noisy legacy radar. The SU-30MKI advanced RWR system will detect its presence from well beyong the CAPTORS ability to detect the SU-30. IIRC the SU-30 even has ARM AAM in its bag of tricks. Now the scenario discribed there are no AWACS present. This implies that the Typhoon would have to use its own Radar to search for targets. This will not only provide the Indian SU-30MIK's with great intelligence as to the locations of the Typhoons. But if an ARM AAM is available it could provide a very stealthy means to engage. The SU-30MKI is able AFAIK to act as a mini-AWACs and designate targets to 4 other SU-30s. So while the Typhoons are handicapped by the lack of AWACS. The SU-30 is not as bad. So you could have a Flight of SU-30 searching the sky for the Typhoons which would have to be doing the same thing revealing themselves to the SU-30s that were prosecuting a passive engagement based on the CAPTORS non LPI operation and target data handed of via SU-30 mini AWACS. Also remember that the Typhoon RCS benefits are not known to be all aspect. So the SU-30s could defeat this through a combination of multiple axis approach and data linked target handoff. By widening the axis one of the flights of SU-30 could even approach outside the CAPTORS detection azmith and elevation and execute a stealthy attack. The SU-30 also has the INTERNAL fuel capacity to have a very flexible variety of options for attack. After an exchange of BVR missiles. The Flanker would also have the persistance and manuverability to out last the Typhoon. Also there is the acknowledged vulnerability of CAPTOR to jamming. Something AMSAR will try to address. None of this means that there is no hope for the Typhoon. But any victory over a SU-30 would be very hard fought. The Russians literally hit the ball out of the park with the SU-30 IMO. If you add the fact that the Indians would be more experienced than Pak or Saudi Pilots in their type then I really think the Typhoons are in trouble.

Quote Reply

Herc the Merc Radar specs for MKI per Pak defence forum 3/3/2006 4:18:49 PM

MKI's Radar NIIP N011M can see a 10 square meter size object from up to 135 NM away.........this is best case scenario (from manufacturer's brochure) for a ultra big size target plane (10 M^2 cross section). This is the best Russia has to offer :) The range drops to below 80 NM for an Arial target with 1 M^2 radar cross section and to 20NM for a plane with radar cross section of 0.1 M^2 (probably small UAV or cruse missile)

Quote Reply

Herc the Merc Specifications for Captor radar 3/3/2006 4:23:55 PM

link

Quote Reply

Yimmy RE:Specifications for Captor radar 3/3/2006 4:48:54 PM

Look, in one hand you have cheap Rusian export stuff, and in the other you have the most sophisticated aircraft the combination of Germany and the UK can produce... its a non-contest.

Quote Reply

Phaid RE:SU-30MKI specs + interview with RAF pilot about the SU-27 -Darth 3/3/2006 4:49:36 PM

You conveniently omit that the Typhoon has an advanced RWR (almost certainly more advanced than that in the SU) of its own. Which puts the advantage right back in the Typhoon's court. Typhoon also has advanced target handoff capabilities, horizontal situation display, etc. As far as the radar capabilities, the N011M has no range advantage over CAPTOR and public sources tend to give N011M an inferior range than CAPTOR. Beyond that, it is known that the "semi-PESA" N011M has a narrow field of view -- the array is on a 3D gimbal system which attempts to address this problem, but it's still something of a kludge and clearly shows that N011M is immature technology. This would cause problems for your whole "mini-AWACS" concept, and with the narrow radar field of view, the Flankers will be limited to using "wall" tactics the way pre-AESA F-15Cs are. Meanwhile, CAPTOR is based on well proven technology and doesn't suffer from these sorts of problems, and although it is not comparable to an AESA it will allow more tactical flexibility than the N011M. So the bottom line in this scenario is that the SU has no advantages in terms of sensors. In a BVR fight it will be seen first because the CAPTOR has at least equal range while the Typhoon has lower RCS, and it will die because the Typhoon has better missiles.

Quote Reply

Herc the Merc RE:Specifications for Captor radar-Yimmy 3/3/2006 4:56:59 PM

Since u must make it a Nationalistic pitch-haha--Russians currently run Intels Pentium team in Santa CLara CA, and Indians were there too--The Brits & Germans are better in machinery & engines--electronics-->> Russian and Indians will make you shake in ur boots and head for the hills. If the R-73 actually works the MKI will win... nobody knows the Indian versions capability.

Quote Reply

PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 NEXT