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Subject: Is it wrong to love the Panavia Tornado?
skrip00    1/18/2006 10:15:37 PM
Something about that aircraft that I love. Its design is sleek, and it can truck a good bomb load. Flies low and fast and penetrates deep into enemy airspace.

Kinda reminds me of a time when aircraft had to fly lower than the trees to avoid tracers and missiles to deliver bombloads on target in support of friendlies.
 
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DropBear    RE: Tornado replacement   1/23/2006 1:02:42 AM
I was hoping that you could get the 123 in addition to the 35s. Unfortunately when Uncle Sam is feeling generous towards his insignificant lap dog allies, he tends to reward them with equipment that is below par. Besides, Oz couldn't afford any YF-23 derivatives and Uncle Sam isn't in any hurry to offer mates rates. Not unless you consider the 1998-2000 offer to sell Oz ten clapped out hulk F-111D's for $US500M. $US50M for a thirty year old Aardvark that isn't even compatable with the rest of our fleet. Sheesh! A friend in need is a... ;)
 
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flamingknives    RE: Tornado replacement   1/23/2006 2:42:50 PM
A friend in need is a... A very good opportunity to make money?
 
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DropBear    RE: Tornado replacement   1/24/2006 6:09:31 AM
Gotta love capitalism ;)
 
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Shaken    Fin is to Pig as useless is to useful... (was:Replacement date? - Yimmy)   1/25/2006 12:07:45 AM
> (Yimmy) > I do agree that the F35 has advantages over the Tornado where it comes to STOL and dogfighting, > but then, the F35 is akin to the F16, while the Tornado is akin to the F111. They are different aircraft > for different missions. Wow, I think you are way off here. The Aardvark is an intermediate (semi-strategic) range medium bomber, while the Tornado is a tactical striker fulfilling the role vacated by the Phantom II and Buccaneer. The load, range, performance and sensors of the Aardvark are generally in excess of the Tornado. The JSF and Tornado are much closer. Similar ranges, similar load and similar sensors (period adjusted). The Combat radii are: F-111A 1330nm (or 800nm, including a 210nm mach 1.2 low-altitufe dash... holy moly!) Tornado 750nm (down to 350nm with a heavy load) F-35C 600nm (no tanks --- wonder what it would be with bags) This is really an unfair comparison, as the Tornado has external tanks... none of the comparison aircraft do. In an even comparison, I expect the JSF will carry more, farther. The F-35 should be thought of as a Tornado that is able to fight AtA as well (and is stealthy and inexpensive and supportable). There are certainly some good things to be said for Tornado, but I think we need to acknowledge that a good fraction of the owners are dumping them early in their lives. The Tornado's combat experience showed them to be fragile and lacking flexibility. They had virtually no affect on the Iraqi AF in spite of their dedicated renway denial munition (average runway downtime was about an hour). In contrast, the similarly roled F-15E was tremendously versatile, durable and generally effective. And, it remained a viable AtA asset... something the Tornado has NEVER been. -- Shaken - out --
 
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Shaken    Was STOL of any use over Iraq? (was:Replacement date? - Yimmy)   1/25/2006 12:20:45 AM
> (Yimmy) > Indeed I do. But then the Falklands will never happen again. > > Was STOL of any use over Iraq? Bosnia? A'stan? The USAF believes it was. They were very impressed with the sortie rates of forward deployed USMC AV-8Bs, particularly for providing Close Air Support. Putting their money where their mouth is, the USAF is moving to customize the F-35B for their use. To be completely fair, the USAF view evolved as they investigated the F-35B. They moved to a set of STOL requirements... not requiring vertical landing. -- Shaken - out --
 
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angryjohn    RE:Is it wrong to love the Panavia Tornado?   1/25/2006 5:29:11 AM
I'm no air expert (Navy man) but I understand that the Tornado was built to counter an aggressive Soviet attack. Flying low under their radar and attacking much smaller runways than the desert facilities in iraq. The doctrine used in the first gulf war was faulty in directing these low attacks on runways as the risk was not worth the minimal effect. The crabs did the best they could with them but they were not the right tools for the job imo. The high level attacks with the Bucks helping out were when they became more effective. But they do look and sound great.
 
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DropBear    Mmmmmm....Tornado   1/25/2006 10:44:37 PM
We're not worthy... link Tornado. Hubba hubba... link
 
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giblets    RE:Mmmmmm....The Tonka   1/29/2006 6:15:43 PM
The Tonka is great, nothing like seeing one sadled with more good than it looks like being able to carry ,sadly they are already starting to scrap them
 
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DropBear    AWESOME!!!   2/5/2006 11:22:22 AM
link
 
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Yimmy    RE:Is it wrong to love the Panavia Tornado?   2/5/2006 12:14:06 PM
That vid wasn't realy that good Drop. They weren't exactly flying tht low or anything.
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:AWESOME!!!   2/5/2006 12:48:15 PM
Gotta love the music ;)
 
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DropBear    Yimmy   2/6/2006 12:01:42 AM
Bite your tongue soldier! It was a video of some IDS's. What more do you ferkin want?
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Dropbear   2/7/2006 2:00:09 PM
Been doin a lot of downloading from Patricksaviation, some really awesome footage in there. To see real low level Tornado flight download the RAF clip called Boys from Bahrain, there is a section where I swear the Tornado is screaming across the sesert at 20ft or so!!!!! Aother good one is of some french training in Morrocco or ALgeria, where there is almost a collision with a truck on a highway!!!!!!!!
 
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DropBear    RE:Dropbear   2/7/2006 7:18:03 PM
I did but the integrity of that video is rank. Pitty they don't have better ones in the class of the Fighter Fling Series.
 
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MustangFlyer    RE:Is it wrong to love the Panavia Tornado?   2/8/2006 6:42:37 AM
Only if it scares the children and frightens the horses.
 
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