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Subject: Is it wrong to love the Panavia Tornado?
skrip00    1/18/2006 10:15:37 PM
Something about that aircraft that I love. Its design is sleek, and it can truck a good bomb load. Flies low and fast and penetrates deep into enemy airspace.

Kinda reminds me of a time when aircraft had to fly lower than the trees to avoid tracers and missiles to deliver bombloads on target in support of friendlies.
 
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Heorot    RE:... - HELL NO!!!   1/19/2006 3:37:28 PM
Upgrading the Tornado should have been planned after the 1992 Gulf War. If it had been started then, then the RAF buy of F35's would have been unneccessary. As it is, it's too late now. Sad though.
 
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Heorot    RE:... - HELL NO!!!   1/19/2006 3:38:04 PM
That should read 1991 Gulf War.
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:... - HELL NO!!!   1/19/2006 3:40:24 PM
No matter what upgrades are stuffed into a Tornado Airframe, it aint gonna beat the versatility of an F 35.
 
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Iano_returns    Replacement date?   1/19/2006 4:51:26 PM
I think the Tornado is a pretty damned fine fighter-bomber (the GR for ground attack) but its meant to be horrible as a fighter-interceptor (yes I know its got AMRAAM now but the F variant was so bad at air to air even the Italians binned them!). Eurofighter for the air to air role cannot come fast enough if you ask me... But what of the future fighter-bomber? I used to think Tornado would carry on well in that slot but over on ARRSE an RAF type convinced me that a two-seater Eurofighter with "plenty of mudmoving toys" would replace it. Guess it makes sense, then all our fast jets will either be Eurofighter (F and GR) or F35 (Attack and naval version). So anyone got a date on when we will lose 'the fin' to Typhoon in ground attack? Also if we are just getting Eurofighter and F35 for our fast jets we will have NO swingwing aircraft!!! Unless we build this into the 2 seater GR Eurofighter for low level bombing work...
 
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Yimmy    RE:Replacement date?   1/19/2006 6:55:02 PM
Ian, there never has been any plan for a two seat Typhoon. Which is a shame, as I am thinking of applying for Weapons Officer (the bloke in the back seat), in the RAF, as a back-up plan to my RFA application. "No matter what upgrades are stuffed into a Tornado Airframe, it aint gonna beat the versatility of an F 35." Why is that? Wht makes an F35 so versitile that is not achievable by a Tornado?
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Replacement date? - Yimmy   1/19/2006 7:08:33 PM
STOVL and the associated ability for dispersed/rough-field Ops I think would be the biggest one. Secondly, Within Visual Range air to air - I think everyone agrees that the Tornada Airframe is not a "Mix it up , up close and personal" type of airframe. Thirdly, vastly smaller RCS opens up the scope of work for the aircraft considerably.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Replacement date? - Yimmy   1/19/2006 7:10:50 PM
Hmmm, I agree with the first two, although I dont really see their importance. I think all this stealth/RCS stuff at the moment is just hype which will fade away in a few decades.
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Replacement date? - Yimmy   1/19/2006 7:13:29 PM
You think its all just keeping up with the joneses type stuff ;) !!!!
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Replacement date? - Yimmy   1/19/2006 7:15:51 PM
Importance of STOVL Do not think that the Falklands demonstrated the usefullness of Rough Field operations when the Harrier force began operating off the Islands themselves?
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Replacement date? - Yimmy   1/19/2006 7:18:02 PM
STOVL STEALTH Will only increase in importance and exponentially so.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Replacement date? - Yimmy   1/19/2006 7:18:09 PM
Indeed I do. But then the Falklands will never happen again. Was STOL of any use over Iraq? Bosnia? A'stan?
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Replacement date? - Yimmy   1/19/2006 7:25:31 PM
>>>Indeed I do. But then the Falklands will never happen again. Was STOL of any use over Iraq? Bosnia? A'stan?<<< ---Two things. 1.You never know when something will happen if the enemy plans correctly. 2. Iraq, Bosnia and A'Stan arent representitive of the future. STOVL/VTOL are an awesome and crucial addition to the future. They make an aircraft even more stealthy as well because they allow for better dispersal techniques. Future weapons make conventional basing obsolete as aircraft operating from fixed sites will be destroyed on the ground. Most of the combat aircraft of the world cannot do battle if their runway is destroyed. Thats a huge vulnerability. Imagine weapons that could be on target with with the effects of a 2000lbs warhead within minutes of launch. Even alert aircraft would not get off the ground in time. That they fly from known fixed points only simplify things.
 
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Yimmy    RE:Replacement date? -Arty   1/19/2006 7:36:57 PM
SOrry, that question was posed to ArtyEngineer
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Replacement date? -Yimmy   1/19/2006 7:47:04 PM
Understood but the answer would most likely be the same I suspect.
 
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ArtyEngineer    RE:Replacement date? -Yimmy   1/19/2006 8:36:18 PM
STOVL/VTOL I think is a very important capability, and I agree that current events cant be taken as indicative of future conflicts, remember pre vietnam when missiles made guns obsolete!!!!!! Well, lets imagine an F22 v F22 engagement, in this case BVR missiles obsolete!!!! The two aircraft could end up wandering around the sky looking for each other trying to get into a guns and wvr engagement..point being who the hell knows what the requirement of threats from the future may be. STEALTH, while currently not ESSENTIAL to get the job done, it sure makes it one hell of a lot easier ;)
 
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