After America who has the second best Air Force in the World?

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DropBear RE:Oz - kjetski 7/15/2005 12:22:49 AM

Both.

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crashnburn RE:To Herc the Merc- hehe 7/15/2005 12:44:25 AM

Yes.. they had losses in Iraq, as did the US.It was mostly from the missions they were asked to complete; scud locating etc....The Brit's also lost a plane to a Patriot as well.(can't remember which type){Patriot targeted as unfriendly} I have to stress it is the training of why I listed the Brit's so high, they are very well trained.I agree, I did reach quite a bit there for the Russians in 3rd.I used to think the Isreali's had more training than US pilots, but not lately...huh... Japan is better than I rated them, but I tried to look at overall. One more thing.......... I wouldn't want to be in a Mirage(of any type) against a F15, thank you very much.If you remember the Libyians had a nice experience with F14's, and their Mirage's.The Iraqi's had them too...............same old story.... Flame on! Crash

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DropBear RE:Oz - sentinel28a 11/30/2005 5:46:12 AM

And there is something better you can buy? I imagine that you can go out to the storage facility in Arizona and get some F-4's real cheap! They got two engines don't they.

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Shooter RE:After America who has the second best Air Force in the World? 12/1/2005 10:20:55 PM

>>Israel then France then India then China then Russia then UK then Australia<< Just could not let this pass? France, India, China and Russia before the Brits? You must be insane Then you site the Ruskies after the Chinks and Indians? I dought that the Indians could take the Ausies and the Chineese are jokes waiting to happen! Just because they, the Indians and Chinese, have some newer planes, does not make the vast majority of their junk capable of dealing with people like the Ausies, let alone the Brits or Germans. The French have the same problems, few of the good stuf and less training than the Brits or Germans. Why don't you read the red Flag logs to find out how they really compair?

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DropBear RE:After America who has the second best Air Force in the World? 12/1/2005 10:24:41 PM

Nobody can take the Aussies. Red Flag, ahh yes. 1996 a fine year that one. RAAF F-111 1:0 USAF F-16 We came, we saw, we flew, we shot USAF fighters down with our geriatric Pigs. :) Per Ardua Ad Astra

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The Lizard King Question for Drop Bear. 12/2/2005 2:27:40 PM

"Red Flag, ahh yes. 1996 a fine year that one. RAAF F-111 1:0 USAF F-16 We came, we saw, we flew, we shot USAF fighters down with our geriatric Pigs." ----------------------- "Australian Squadrons have participated in Ex Red Flag approximately every two years since 1980." "The last time the F-111 took part in Ex Red Flag was in 2002" link ----------------------- What about years 1980 thru 2002?

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DropBear RE:Question for Drop Bear. 12/2/2005 11:59:40 PM

What about them?

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DropBear RE:Question for DropBear - also 12/3/2005 12:03:28 AM

2002: RED-HOT Air Force F-111 crews have returned from Exercise Red Flag with a perfect record. The F-111 ground and aircrews from No. 82 Wing at RAAF Base Amberley achieved a flawless sortie rate during Red Flag, planning and flying 118 out of 118 missions in the month-long exercise conducted at Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada. The Australians were the only crews to boast a 100 per cent sortie success rate at the end of the exercise. In addition, there were no losses caused by SAMs - an extraordinary feat in such a complex exercise. link And pics from 2004... link You chaps were even nice enough to let us show you how real men fly jets by inviting us to our first ever Green Flag for Oz back in 1999. :)

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bunkerdestroyer RE:Question for DropBear - also 12/3/2005 3:42:09 AM

DB....wow...you train well. now as far as actual world experience...you have how much? Let's see....in GW1 ZERO combate sorties. GW2...lets see....75 sq and 14 ...yes, a massive 14 F-18. What did they do? Fly cover for AWACS, protecting them from the none-existant IAF(musta scared them from flying..you know, with all that ass you kick during the wargames)Then later on, the overwhelming 14(yes 14) flew some strike missions...Just how many sorties? perhaps a hundred? I'm impressed. I remember a line in the dirty dozen when donald sutherland played general and had to "inspect" the troops....comically he asked the commanding officer "they look real nice, but can they fight?" perhaps you would like to send your 70+/5 whole sq. "c" up against some e/f's? well, how about 13-15 sq deployed? about 200-230 vs your 70? and dont worry, we wont have to deploy from "across the pond" we can just park off shore from our 7-8 carriers-surrounding your giant litter box. wanna fly your 35 pigs out? bring a dingy or two. most will be swimming shortly. If not for the remaining 14's then the 18's will be eating roast pig. If they get full, then we can use the air defense to have a shot at a few pigs in the poke.... and the mighty impressive RAN...what, 6 subs, 7new and 5 old frigates and 13 patrol boats backed by 2-3 sq of helicopters(44-48) and a few harpoons? Doesnt Iran have a bigger navy? Or Israel? perhaps the Phillipeans? I think about the only one you could beat up is new zealand.... Perhaps we will make it easy and just lob several hundred cruise missiles from subs or ships. Dont think the F-18s have the ability to shoot them down, so you'd better hope that a few malfunction.... Since your well integrated air defense systems are still fully funtional and not fried....I'm sure your High Altitude Air defense will be more than capable of shooting down a b-2 or a few b-1s. Out of curiosity, how many do you have...NONE you say....well, better hope a few f-18s survived, well, then again no, as the 2-3 that are still left probably wont be able to find them with just their radar. Better hope that all the JADAMS hit are the turd piles in your giant litter box as there wouldnt be that much left after 5-600 cruise missiles.... I guess its good your our red-headed stepchild and get all our hand-me-downs, and that we have good relations. I would sure hate to have to 'turn your over our knee.' So, shine that canapy, press that flight suit....because as far as I'm concerned; "they look real nice."

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gf0012-aust RE:Question for DropBear - also 12/3/2005 7:17:03 AM

the monty python sketch is swimming into view .... ;)

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DropBear bunkerdestroyer 12/3/2005 7:32:33 AM

Meeeeooooowww! ;)

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bunkerdestroyer RE:bunkerdestroyer 12/3/2005 7:42:37 AM

DB......I was gonna give you credit and go with ROOOOAAAARRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but, okay, just watch out for hairballs.....

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gf0012-aust hand me downs 12/3/2005 8:05:14 AM

"get all our hand-me-downs" in the midst of your spray, I'm curious about what "hand-me downs" we get from the US? We don't get any of the FMS discounts that the US applies to the less financial members of NATO. and the US has never offered us "mates rates" of any note for any platforms - and I think I'm probably in a good position to know. The wild card in all of that is how much we're paying to get the Virginia/Seawolf combat system installed into our 6 subs - but then we're giving you access to acoustic management technology, microwelding technology, OTHR data for integration into the US Battle Management Network and some skimmer shipbuilding tech. So I guess we're "even" ;) The Hornets were bought new and are our most reliable combat airframe to date. The Abrams will be zeroed frames - and in real terms costs us more than a new build outright purchase - so in real terms we got dudded (compared to what the Germans and Dutch were prepared to give us with respect to ex NATO warstock Leo A4's, support vehicles and arty systems. On tanks alone we have joined the infamous ranks of the Sabine women. I know that DMO are loathe to admit that our cousin across the pond has dudded us a few times - but the sad reality is that the US in recent times has been less than earnest as a mate. I've sat in on more than a few meeetings where the relevant Govt Defence Minister of the day has given the political version of WTF? Granted the DMO muppets have to take responsibility for not running approp due diligence - but you do expect your mates not to screw you. It does leave a bad taste in the mouth. The bulk of our current major capital acquisitions are new and not from the US. The Wedgetails will be new US, the AAR will be new and Euro. In fact the only time we get royally shafted is when we've bought second hand US gear. (2 replacement Chinooks excepted) Although I'm pre-empting judgement on the Abrams when I should be more circumspect I guess. However, all of the new US gear we've bought has been relatively fault free (well, apart from Sikorsky not advising us early about known airframe faults) The refurbed US gear has been an unmitigated disaster in procurement terms. (eg the Seasprogs as another example. etc...) It's also why this Govt, who is the most visibly supportive Govt we've ever had towards the US has put the hammer down on buying second hand US gear (hence the abandoning of the offer of the Kidds, then the 3 Ticonderogas etc...) Are you thinking about Austria and not Australia? whats good about the US (and the UK) is that they don't threaten to withold spare parts when there is a political foreign policy disagreement - unlike our experience with the Swedes and the French. Or, have I typed all of the above only to discover that your spray about "hand me downs" was a colourful addition to your grumpy attack on the bear? ;)

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DropBear RE:hand me downs 12/3/2005 9:16:36 AM

However, all of the new US gear we've bought has been relatively fault free (well, apart from Sikorsky not advising us early about known airframe faults) Gotta love Sikorsky Craphawks. Not!!!

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bunkerdestroyer RE:hand me downs 12/3/2005 10:36:29 AM

DB....I agree....shouldnt by us junk.......good think you have an indigenous built helicopter.... no, wait....you dont....my bad... could always go back to colonial days and take the merlin.......perhaps you can then do us all a favor and take Fergie as your new queen............

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