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Subject: After America who has the second best Air Force in the World?
The Lizard King    7/12/2005 8:40:35 AM
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DropBear    RE:Oz - DarthAmerica   7/13/2005 4:47:12 AM
Thankyou for the definition. I know what IADS stands for. If you could explain it in the Oz context I would be chuffed to bits. P.S. You'll find our Wedgies are still in CONUS. Not much help to us there. Also, you need not explain JORN OTH to me as I have a passing interest in Telstra. Airborn Early Warning, eh? Would that include a National Jet Systems BAE-146 with binoculars? Hmmm... Australia's IADS is simple. It is modelled on the trusty "tyrrany of Distance Model". It works by discouraging foreign aggressors by requiring them to fly 12 hours just to find that 2/3 of the country is harsh arid desert that nobody lives in. Usually said enemy turns around (if they have the fuel) and goes home, minus the prawns. Actually more cost effective than BMEWS and NORAD. You can argue maintenance needs all you like. A USAF F-16 sqn has the same needs as an RAAF F-18 sqn. Plane for plane, you blokes suck. P.S. Sell us a dozen B-1b's and I'll overlook your sale of rusty, geriatric Newport LST's to Australia.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - sentinel28a   7/13/2005 5:11:52 AM
"If it's a straight fight between the USAF and the RAAF, we wouldn't be able to establish air superiority over Oz"--sentinel28a Sorry man but this is false. Remember we have hundreds of tankers, dozens of AWACs, considerable ISR systems, almost 200 long range intercontinental bombers and thousands of tactical fighter-bombers and even ICBMs that could wreak havoc there. Some of these weapons systems can fire from hundreds to thousands of KM away. To be blunt, the USAF could end the RAAF anywhere from 30min to 30 days depending on what systems are used. All from CONUS. link link link We have more B-52 than they have fighters. link And almost as many B-1B link So reducing the RAAF to zero from CONUS or Hawaii is very realistic in a hypothetical conflict.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - DarthAmerica   7/13/2005 5:14:39 AM
Fixed wing maintenance isnt my thing so I have to trust you. I know my rotor-wing pilots and mechs would disagree though. And I wish you guys did buy some B-1B's. It would sure suit your needs especially with the distances you have to deal with. Even BUFFs would help. F-15E in a pinch if you must retire the Pigs.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - DarthAmerica   7/13/2005 5:16:42 AM
Drop, you are right about your IADs. Its very simple BUT you do have a huge natural defense and good allies. P.S. Whenever I refer to IAD its always including fighters along with ground based systems.
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz - DarthAmerica   7/13/2005 5:21:48 AM
link That site is sooooo out of date and wrong!!! If you want the skinny on the RAAF go official! You really think you can fire stand-off cruise missiles from Hawaii and destroy the entire RAAF????? We may do a Coober Pedy on you. Perhaps you don't know where all 20 air bases in Oz are sited? You gonna hit Learmonth from Hawaii??? If you succeed, I'll buy you a slab of your choice. This should be interesting... ;) P.S. Rotary isn't used by RAAF. That would be an Army comparison for us. Oz Army. Erk. Whores will have their trinkets. ;(
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - sentinel28a   7/13/2005 5:23:11 AM
Having said all that, Oz does have a decent Airforce more than capable of dealing with potential threats it is likely to face. The addition of 100 JSFs will significantly increase their capability. Damn, Oz should have a carrier or long range bomber...
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz - DarthAmerica   7/13/2005 5:25:18 AM
"F-15E in a pinch if you must retire the Pigs. " Is that a joke? :(
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz - sentinel28a   7/13/2005 5:30:49 AM
"Having said all that, Oz does have a decent Airforce more than capable of dealing with potential threats it is likely to face. The addition of 100 JSFs will significantly increase their capability. Damn, Oz should have a carrier or long range bomber..." Decent, you're so kind. Up to 100 JSF and no it will strain the RAAF as the limits in their range compared with Pig will have to be shared between remaining A2A configured JSF with 5 A330MRTT. 5 tankers = 1x RAMP4 or more (deep level maintenance), 1x RAMP2-3 (line maintenance at sqn level) and 3x operational to support up to 100 jets over a geographic area the size of CONUS, as well as sea-air gap and maritime strike needs covering 1/9th of the worlds ocean. Explain to me again how JSF will meet the Harpoon, AGM-142 Popeye, and soon to be integrated JASSM punch and 4000km range requiremnts that exist TODAY with Pig-111?????????
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - DarthAmerica   7/13/2005 5:31:16 AM
C'mon Drop, you are quibbling. You know we would fire ALCMs from Hawaii. Just base the KC-135's there to top of the fighters/bombers on their way south. Also our ISR capability would easily locate any airbase. And our Long Range Bomber force is powerful enough that we could destroy the RAAF, if not on the first night, then definately by day 2 or 3. A single B-2 alone is capable of knocking out an entire airbase! A dozen to 2 dozen F-22 acting as fighter sweeps could keep those HugBugs running for momma. But I like Oz! I dont want to blow it up.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - sentinel28a   7/13/2005 5:34:16 AM
Hey drop, slow down. If you like the Pig I love it. But you seem to be trading it for JSF. I trust you if you think the Pig is better. But Id say if 4000km range is important. A few B-1B, maybe 6 to 12 and some 72 or so JSF would make a very modern, long range and potent force.
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz - DarthAmerica   7/13/2005 5:36:00 AM
Is that whilst we are tracking your strat bombers? link link
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - sentinel28a   7/13/2005 5:39:55 AM
Decent was not meant as an insult Drop. I say decent only because you lack the AWACS and Tanker assets I love so much. Also 35 Pigs, while potent, is a relatively small force. A smart opponent would use intelligence officers and/or SOF personnel to kill most of the crews just prior to conflict in a series of DA missions. You have 12 or so crews now so its a good option to reduce the numbers of Pigs you can send out.
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz - sentinel28a   7/13/2005 5:43:33 AM
Slow down??? Matey, I'm just getting started. JSF is a handy little stealth mud mover and no doubt users like USA will find its inherent RCS qualities superb, however, as my nearest neighbour operated about 12 geriatric F-16A's with no AEWACS, no AAR, no BVR - I seriously doubt I need said mud mover muppet. I will happily look at replacing 71 Hug Bugs and 35 Pigs with 100-120 Rhino, including EA-18G, however, as my Gov prefers AII over AoA, I guess I will have to just continue to vote for these simpering smurf merchants. I would dearly love B-1b's, however, we shan't get them as it would upset the neighbours. We have a history (unfortunately) of asking our potential enemies if it bothers them that we are buying goodies that can bomb them into submission. Strangely enough they are never too happy about that particular prospect (mores the pitty). JSF - long range? Willy to Amberley then Tindal whilst sucking vapiurs? Only 5 tankers in total remember.
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - DarthAmerica   7/13/2005 5:44:15 AM
"Is that whilst we are tracking your strat bombers?" Well SOCOM could hinder that. Not that it matters as the Bombers will be under heavy escort ready to swat away any bugs that rise up to challenge. Not to mention those bombers, which outnumber your fighters, will be firing many cruise missiles. There is no hope of not getting saturated AND dealing with the F-22/F-15 on sweep. You are good but simply not strong enough.
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz - sentinel28a   7/13/2005 5:46:56 AM
"A smart opponent would use intelligence officers and/or SOF personnel to kill most of the crews just prior to conflict in a series of DA missions." That is why we have 4RAR, SASR and TAG East. As for base security post 9/11, well we bought bigger guard dogs and longer chains, so the specforces beware! Besides, any SOF operatives trying to bump off Pig drivers at Amberley will have to contend with traffic congestion in BrisVegas first. They probably will give up in dispair having spent 4 hours on the Ipswich MWY! ;)
 
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