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Subject: After America who has the second best Air Force in the World?
The Lizard King    7/12/2005 8:40:35 AM
Your thoughts?
 
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french stratege    DarthAmerica    7/12/2005 9:13:33 PM
In five years: 1: USA 2: France/Israel/Russia (??) 3: Japan/UK/Germany/China 4: India 5: Sweden/Taiwan/Greece/Italy 6: ROK/Australia/Nederland/Spain/Turkey/Canada/Egypt/Saudi India move to band 4 (awacs, M2000-5, SU35, training) UK , Germany and Italy have significant numbers of EF 2000 so end the air combat fighter gap and move up in bands. UK stay behind France and Israel because of total numbers still inferior. Darth: UK pilots are outstanding but they DON'T HAVE ANY POSSIBILITY TO PROTECT THEIR BOMBER FLEET AGAISNT FRANCE, ISRAEL OR JAPAN FIGHTERS. Russia have still more than 2000 fighters and improved Mig 29 SU30/27 SU24 and bombers are still a massive force on a much better technological level than China.And Putine have incresed a lot training funding in the last years.And I think their units are not at the same level for training.Some "elite" and other poor.Spain could move up but I have to check.
 
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DropBear    RE:After America???? - FS   7/12/2005 9:40:22 PM
"But M2000-5 vs F18? " RAAF Hug F-18 Vs French Mirage 2000. I know who my money is on! Perhaps you aren't familiar with a Hug Hornet? It isn't the same as an F-18C you do realise?
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz   7/12/2005 9:41:59 PM
You're so kind. In quality I'd go RAAF RAF Sweden Switzerland Germany France USN USMC USAF and who cares about the rest, right?
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:DarthAmerica - FS   7/12/2005 9:47:23 PM
FS I understand your opinion on the UK RAF. Keep in mind I am not comparing power. In terms of power the USAF and Russians are still number 1 and 2 respectively. The UK doesnt have the same a2a power as some of the nations you mention BUT they dont really have the need either considering the threats they face. Unless you really believe the France vs the UK thread, the UK is properly organized to deal with the challenges they face. Also they are aquiring the EF2000 and JSF which will give them more parity in a2a capability with some of the nations you mention. Also noteworthy is that the UK pilots are more combat experienced than all the nations in your bands except for the US and flying proven planes with proven weapons. P.S. send an email when you get a chance to darthamerica@gmail.com
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - DropBear   7/12/2005 9:48:33 PM
Your drinking already...?;)
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz - DropBear   7/12/2005 9:50:03 PM
Sorry champ, but anyone who thinks USAF is number one in any category other than MOST POWERFUL is too far gone on the turps for my liking. :(
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - DropBear   7/12/2005 9:54:34 PM
Well everybody has an opinion! Not that it matters since we are not likely to have to fight each other..;)
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz - DropBear   7/12/2005 10:04:42 PM
You blokes would be in trouble if you had to. The actual number of B-52's you blokes could manage to sortie on any given day would be thumped by Bugs and Pigs after we let you fly them right across the pond. I won't hold my breath...
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - DropBear   7/12/2005 10:12:47 PM
Why would we do that? The BUFFS can fire on you from well outside the range of your IAD. And Im sure the escorting F-22s might not agree with your plan...;)
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz - DropBear   7/12/2005 10:50:18 PM
And pray tell how many F-22's have reached IOC??? One sqn at Tyndall perhaps? Maybe two? Up against 120+ with Amraam and Asraam? Hmmm... IADS??? Are we talking about the same country??? A Rapier battery and a few RBS-70 maketh an IADS? I think not. If you want to invade, by all means, just bring plenty of Steve Irwin, shark, snake, spider, mossie, jellyfish and croc repellant. Oh, and bring fresh drinking water to...
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - DropBear   7/12/2005 11:22:32 PM
Drop I'm a little dissapointed. Surely you must know IADs are more than just SAMs. And we both know two squadrons of F-22 with proper support would be more than a match for those 120 aircraft. But this futher illustrates the power of the USAF. Because those AMRAAMs wont track an F-22 under the likely conditions of this hypothetical contest. And the F-22 could always chose to avoid ASRAAM ranges via stealth/supercruise. What are we not top notch in again...;)
 
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DropBear    RE:Oz - DropBear   7/13/2005 3:30:28 AM
"Drop I'm a little dissapointed. Surely you must know IADs are more than just SAMs." Care to explain to me what IADS Oz has??? Only lived here all my life. care to educate the Oznik? "What are we not top notch in again...;) " I'll start with maintenance standards and graduate level fastjet pilot proficiency, you can figure out the rest...
 
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sentinel28a    RE:Oz - DropBear   7/13/2005 4:32:45 AM
If it's a straight fight between the USAF and the RAAF, we wouldn't be able to establish air superiority over Oz, but I wouldn't want to be at Williamstown, either--not when the 20 or so cruise missiles start tipping over. And the fact is that you guys would be running out of Hug Bugs before we ran out of Rodans. Attrition is a crappy way to win, but nobody argues much with victory. Add in the Navy and it's all over but the crying, and I say that with the utmost respect for my friends Down Under. Anyway, to throw my two cents into the semiannual Waving of the Colors--and assuming that by "Air Force" one means "everything that flies," I would have to put India and France in a dead heat. The French still have one of the best air forces in the world, and are the only others besides us, the Russians, and the Brazilians who still have real carriers, not Harrier carriers. They also haven't seemed to suffer the same sort of ravaging the RAF gets at the hands of the MoD. The UK is coming on strong, though, and somehow the English always find ways to win, even when everything is against them. Once they get the two new carriers in service, things may even up between them and France. Right behind the pack is India, who already has a good air force and a strong navy, and the PRC, which is starting to shed quantity for quality. Israel is somewhere behind that--I love the Heyl Ha'avir, but while they dominate the Middle East, they can't project power too far outside of there (Tunisia nonwithstanding). Right next the Israelis I would have to put the Australians. I guess this means that I don't get any Sheilas if I ever visit DropBear...
 
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DarthAmerica    RE:Oz - DropBear   7/13/2005 4:36:24 AM
Definition: IADS - Integrated Air Defence System - an air defence system where many different systems are integrated so that commanders may get a 'big picture' and information verification. Would include early warning sites, AEW&C and major ship borne systems (e.g. Aegis cruisers-USN), SAM sites and fighter aircraft link So basically whatever SAMs, AEW, Fighters ect. that you have. I wont argue your maintenance, proficiency ect. because I'm not up to speed on Oz's specific situation. Also its a very subjective comparison considering our VERY different defense requirements.
 
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DropBear    Sentinel28a   7/13/2005 4:39:07 AM
"I guess this means that I don't get any Sheilas if I ever visit DropBear..." Calling an Aussie girl a shiela is akin to calling her a slag/slut. It doesn't mean same, however, you probably will get a good kicking where it hurts. I wouldn't advise you mention that word to any Aussie girl in the future!!! :(
 
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