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Subject: How good is the Sepcat Jaguar A2A?
Aussiegunner1    4/27/2005 12:01:06 AM
I've read that the Jag has above wing missiles, for self-defence in the event of getting bumped whilst on an attack mission. Is their any evidence(eg, from ACM exercises, Red Flag etc) as to how it would perform in the low-level environment, in a short range A2A engagment? Also, how would it have compared against the F-8's that were used by the French Navy. Had Marcel Dassault not convinced the French government to go with the inferior Super Etenard, instead of the maranised Jaguar, would it have been good enough to replace the Crusaders in their role as well? Could the Agave radar that was planned for the marinised Jaguar have been supplanted for a Cyrano IV, like on the F-1, allowing it to use Super 530's for BVR work whilst still allowing the Exocet to be used?
 
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VelocityVector    French Stratege: If they were really interested in economics...   5/1/2005 9:45:50 PM
FS, please direct me to the authority for your statement "automatic variable camber, outstanding performance with a top speed of Mach 3 ...." I stumbled across a paper claim the aircraft was capable of Mach 2.3, but never did locate substantiation for Mach 3 or variable camber wing. A French-language authority will be fine. v^2
 
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Aussiegunner1    RE:If they were really interested in economics...   5/2/2005 3:16:02 AM
"In fact it was what the navy wanted". Do you mean that the A-4 was what the navy wanted? If so, did they propose any upgrades with Radar and Exocets at the time?
 
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Phaid    RE:Phaid   5/2/2005 5:04:50 AM
I replied in the Naval Air forum. link Bottom line, the French would have had a more difficult time of it than the British, though they could possibly have done it. With regard to the Crusader numbers issue: in 1982, there were only 29 F-8E(FN) in existence; of the original 42, 13 had been lost to accidents. The high loss rate and maintenance had forced the Aeronavale to disestablish one of the two Crusader squadrons in 1979, so Flotille 12F was the sole French F-8 squadron in 1982, with 12 aircraft. They could possibly have scraped together a few more, but nothing close to 30.
 
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Ander320    RE:Jaguar and the French   5/2/2005 6:58:20 AM
I don't know what you mean by PC, but in any case, I've read that comments by its pilots indicate that the SE was generally only able to make Mach .98 under normal flight conditions, even though the specs give a top speed of Mach 1.3. That is a considerable difference to Mach 1.3 for the Jag. PC is for Post Combustion. The SE loaded is subsonnic but i don't think a Jaguar loaded without PC can go supersonic. The Cruise speed and the operationnal speed of the SE may not be that far from the one of the Jaguar even if the Mach1.6/Mach 1.3 seems a good adva&ntage. Jaguar never have been known for good "acceleration" and using PC for long period isn't that a good idea.
 
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Aussiegunner1    RE:Jaguar and the French   5/2/2005 10:43:18 AM
"Jaguar never have been known for good "acceleration" and using PC for long period isn't that a good idea." Still, it only needs to beat the Super Etenard, not too hard an ask. Also, with a much better endurance, the Jag should be able to spend a lot more time in afterburner(PC as you call it), than the SE can. While both would be subsonic on ingress(probably necessary anyway, if they are to aim their bombs properly), egress speed is what is really important to avoid being shot in the arse by a SAM or an enemy fighter.
 
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