F-22 VS. Eurofighter

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utopian 8/25/2007 7:00:47 AM

Unfortunately there's no chance to edit my post, so I cannot change the German links into English ones or into videos *sorry*

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Phaid 8/25/2007 7:07:03 AM

OSF was declared obsolescent for two reasons

No. OSF was declared obsolescent for one reason: its design called for parts that nobody manufactures any more, and since parts were unavailable off the shelf the cost to manufacture and maintain it would have been astronomical.

There is at present no OSF-NG, there are no designs for it yet and the contract for it hasn't been awarded. Only the first 48 F2 Rafales will have OSF, the rest will have an empty fairing until someday when new units are procured.

When JSF will enter service in 2011.2012 Rafale will have further RCS reduction, standard post F3, AESA and OSF2. All fully funded!

None of those systems will be in production for Rafale by 2012. AESA, OSF-NG, a working MWR for Spectra, and all the other fixes for Rafale's deficiencies will be at best included in the post-F3 configuration which is projected well after 2012. In 2012 the F3s will be flying around with no OSF and the best they can hope for is some ground attack modes in RBE2 and a targeting pod.

There is no way Rafale would have an obsolescent avionic when JSF will enter service if we want to compete with.

Rafale already had obsolete electronics compared to the F-15 and F/A-18 that it competed against and lost to. There is no reason to suppose it will not also have obsolete electronics compared to the F-35.

Rafale has failed every test it's been put to. It can't out-dogfight a Harrier, it can't BVR with Su-30s or F/A-18s, nobody wants to buy it because its technology is dated and its growth potential dubious, and its "combat proven" deployment consisted of hauling two bombs at a time that it couldn't even designate for itself.

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Herald1234 8/25/2007 7:22:37 AM

"Red" is not good, right ;-)
F-22 catches an Eurofighter on the radar before, but the Eurofighter outmaneuvers the F-22 and it's heat-seeking-missiles twice!

PS: Mozilla Firefox seems to be responsible for my double posts :-(

F-22 low altitude demo flight....

Look I understand that youm like the Typhoon. I happen to think its a good aircraft, but it is not going to be able to outperform an aircraft that was designed to outclimb it, out accelerate it, be harder to detect, fly at a much greater altitude and frankly carry an A2A BVR rocket [AMRAAM] that is being updated/designed to take adavantage of those very factors to exploit.

You want a WVR dogfighter, then Typhoon is a very good bird.. You want to shoot down enemy aircraft with impunity? Then you build something like a supercruise jet propelled aircraft that at 20,000 meters + can maneuver on its jet engines like a rocket, and can throw no escape you missiles at you fromm almost 100 kilometers away and KILL you dead with better than 70% certainty.

Maneuver in dense air is nice. First see, first shoot, first kill, is absolutely VITAL.

Its that simple. Typhoon is completely outclassed. Wrong design choices for an air superiority fighter.

METEOR is a desperate A2A extended range ramjet BVR missile development to try to make up for the original Eurocluck mistake.

Herald .

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utopian 8/25/2007 8:47:26 AM

Well, I can't help myself, the F-22 is awesome and it looks much better and more terrific, but it seems a littlebit hard and clumsy.

As far as I can see the only advantage of the F-22 is the stealth technology up to a certain armament. Eurofighter has better agility, better pilot-aircraft-interface, higher speed and better (/more) weapons (a2a: amraam and/or meteor and a2g: Paveway III).

Nevertheless, the English Wikipedia source may be right:
"In March 2005, United States Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper, then the only person to have flown both the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Raptor, gave a verbal comparison on the two aircraft. He said that "the Eurofighter is both agile and sophisticated, but is still difficult to compare to the F-22 Raptor." "They are different kinds of airplanes to start with," the general said. "It's like asking us to compare a NASCAR car with a Formula 1 car. They are both exciting in different ways, but they are designed for different levels of performance.""

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usajoe 8/25/2007 8:55:07 AM

As far as I can see the only advantage of the F-22 is the stealth technology up to a certain armament. Eurofighter has better agility, better pilot-aircraft-interface, higher speed and better (/more) weapons (a2a: amraam and/or meteor and a2g: Paveway III).

Than you cant see very well can you, you need to put on

your glasses and come back to reality!

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gf0012-aust 8/25/2007 10:05:04 AM

and this is based on your experience as an FTE or TP?

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DarthAmerica 8/25/2007 11:18:36 AM

Well, I can't help myself, the F-22 is awesome and it looks much better and more terrific, but it seems a littlebit hard and clumsy.

As far as I can see the only advantage of the F-22 is the stealth technology up to a certain armament. Eurofighter has better agility, better pilot-aircraft-interface, higher speed and better (/more) weapons (a2a: amraam and/or meteor and a2g: Paveway III).

Nevertheless, the English Wikipedia source may be right:
"In March 2005, United States Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper, then the only person to have flown both the Eurofighter Typhoon
and the Raptor, gave a verbal comparison on the two aircraft. He said
that "the Eurofighter is both agile and sophisticated, but is still
difficult to compare to the F-22 Raptor." "They are different kinds of
airplanes to start with," the general said. "It's like asking us to
compare a NASCAR car with a Formula 1 car. They are both exciting in different ways, but they are designed for different levels of performance.""

Bewildering!

-DA

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DarthAmerica 8/25/2007 11:20:21 AM

Well, I can't help myself, the F-22 is awesome and it looks much better and more terrific, but it seems a littlebit hard and clumsy.

As far as I can see the only advantage of the F-22 is the stealth technology up to a certain armament. Eurofighter has better agility, better pilot-aircraft-interface, higher speed and better (/more) weapons (a2a: amraam and/or meteor and a2g: Paveway III).

Nevertheless, the English Wikipedia source may be right:
"In March 2005, United States Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper, then the only person to have flown both the Eurofighter Typhoon
and the Raptor, gave a verbal comparison on the two aircraft. He said
that "the Eurofighter is both agile and sophisticated, but is still
difficult to compare to the F-22 Raptor." "They are different kinds of
airplanes to start with," the general said. "It's like asking us to
compare a NASCAR car with a Formula 1 car. They are both exciting in different ways, but they are designed for different levels of performance.""

Bewildering! If a person can read enough to use the internet. Is it possible to be this ignorant or perhaps by coincidence accidentally type this post by randomly pushing keys?

-DA

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Phaid Duplicate Posts 8/25/2007 11:32:15 AM

The reason you keep making dupe posts is because you're reloading the page immediately after posting. Do not do that! You need to go back to the forum index page..., and then click on the topic ("F-22 VS. Eurofighter..." or whichever). After that, you can hit reload to your heart's content without creating duplicates.

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french stratege 8/25/2007 12:56:53 PM

Phiad

link

Page 6

Evolution of Rafale is funded.It will have a brand new electronic in the same time of F35 IOC including AESA and OSF NG.

We simply ordered OSF2 and missiles warner separatly to give now third batch order for Dassault and negociate separatly a new contract with Thales and Sagem.Those equipements would be implemented in the months following third batch delivery.

Like the Dutch we consider Rafale to be on par with F35 on major capacities including survivability (when we consider the same year of course - do I have to remember again that F35 IOC is in 2011 ??? ).

We far prefer to have our own Rafale than a dowgraded F35 under US control like other nations will have (except the Brtish maybe).

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