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Subject: F-22 VS. Eurofighter
mike14    2/15/2005 2:24:35 PM
Who would win.
 
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DarthAmerica       8/24/2007 4:34:20 PM

And rest is in the same bullsh@it......

You did not understood that homing on jamming work only if signal is more powerfull or returning signal can be distinguished by encoding which is even more difficult as you can close to background noise in a jamming environment.

IT is why LO matters.
I respond by FACTs because I'm fed up to see US poseurs to think we are technologically third world nations unable to make a competitive yet technology vs US equipement when I know the true better.

You decided to field top passive stealth technology (and please to your military lobby).Nice.We decided to field LO PLUS TOP ECM and the efficency gap is not a magnitude between those two solutions.

Now a F16 like fighter have a 3 Sqm RCS.Divides it by 30 to 60 and you have a 0,1 to 0,05.

A F15 fighter has a 10 Sqm RCS.Divides it by 30 to 60 and you have a 0,3 to 0,15.

Divide those value by a further 20 to 50 ratio and you have F35/F22 range.

But I would point out that a good jamming is equivalent to a 10 to 20 RCS reduction value.

 



FS give it up. You aren't fooling anyone but yourself. At least have the professionalism to admit when you are wrong. Jamming can do many things FS but it is an EMITTER and a source that is readily exploitable. How do you propose to jam a seeker with an undetectable jamming signal? Does that make sense to you? Jammers are not stealthy by nature. They also require extensive knowledge of the threat. I work with things like this everyday so dont try to BS me kid.  
 
-DA
 
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displacedjim       8/24/2007 4:44:19 PM

A first error, an IRST have
a fraction of a degree accuracy.Even publicly, Rafale or Eurofighter
designer give 0,1° accuracy order for RWR thus for IRST it is even
better.


Could you clarify: do you mean the OSF that was declared obsolescent by DGA and thus only 48 examples were procured, or do you mean OSF-NG which does not exist yet even on paper?


 
*SNAP!*
 
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french stratege       8/24/2007 5:19:34 PM
OSF was declared obsolescent for two reasons:
A: today best or future captors (from french Sofradir) and signal processors are even better by a magnitude - In ten years a lot of progress!Generation 3 on the way!
B: DGA want to renegociate contract with putting again in competition Sagem and Thales or force them to merge their optronic activity like it did for RBE2 between Dassault electronic and Thales.
With OSF2 I guess we could even detect a F22 in the 100 km range and a conventional fighter at 150 km with better scanning speed!.
When JSF will enter service in 2011.2012 Rafale will have further RCS reduction, standard post F3, AESA and OSF2.
All fully funded!
There is no way Rafale would have an obsolescent avionic when JSF will enter service if we want to compete with.
 
 
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DarthAmerica       8/24/2007 5:27:28 PM

OSF was declared obsolescent for two reasons:

A: today best or future captors (from french Sofradir) and signal processors are even better by a magnitude - In ten years a lot of progress!Generation 3 on the way!

B: DGA want to renegociate contract with putting again in competition Sagem and Thales or force them to merge their optronic activity like it did for RBE2 between Dassault electronic and Thales.

With OSF2 I guess we could even detect a F22 in the 100 km range and a conventional fighter at 150 km with better scanning speed!.

When JSF will enter service in 2011.2012 Rafale will have further RCS reduction, standard post F3, AESA and OSF2.

All fully funded!

There is no way Rafale would have an obsolescent avionic when JSF will enter service if we want to compete with.

 


FS you are digging your credibility grave deeper and deeper. Do you not know that no one on these boards takes you seriously?
 
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Herald1234    Don't confuse actual FoV with discrimination FoV   8/24/2007 6:02:16 PM
CRETIN.
 
Herald
 
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french stratege       8/24/2007 6:07:27 PM
My credibility.Who are you to judge since you never provide any link to back your rants?
Prejudice vs European technology and lack of understanding do not bring you any credibility.
Britain, German, France have no incompetent MOD, only less money.
Dutch have evaluated Rafale 2012 vs JSF 2012 and rate them identically: 6,95 vs 6,97.
Are Dutch an incompetent nation?
My credibility is fact based.
 
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DarthAmerica       8/24/2007 6:22:12 PM

My credibility.Who are you to judge since you never provide any link to back your rants?

Prejudice vs European technology and lack of understanding do not bring you any credibility.

Britain, German, France have no incompetent MOD, only less money.

Dutch have evaluated Rafale 2012 vs JSF 2012 and rate them identically: 6,95 vs 6,97.

Are Dutch an incompetent nation?

My credibility is fact based.


No its not. A poll of this forum will show your credibility seriously lacking. FS ECD are good platforms but they arent F-22/35 period. They are roughly on PAR with most other 4th Gen platforms except in the role of precision all weather strike where they lag behind all operational U.S. fighters.
-DA 
 
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french stratege       8/24/2007 6:51:22 PM
No its not. A poll of this forum will show your credibility seriously lacking. FS ECD are good platforms but they arent F-22/35 period. They are roughly on PAR with most other 4th Gen platforms except in the role of precision all weather strike where they lag behind all operational U.S. fighters.
-DA 
Poll mean nothing in technical matters.You are not my peers.
ECD are closer to F35/F22 than teens fighters since they have a magnitude superiority in stealthiness and survivability vs teens (LO, ECM, datafusion, ESM, multicaptors...)
Without F22 been introduced in USA now, our current french planned fleet of top line air superiority fighters M2000-5 and rafale F2/F3 alone (roughly 155 fighters in 2011) , would have excedeed the whole USAF dedicated air superiority power in 2010/2011 (its 4 air wing F15C fleet) since you would have only obsolete F15 C (except an AESA F15  squadron) and F16 (since F35 IOC is in 2011).
 
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DarthAmerica       8/24/2007 6:58:06 PM



No its not. A poll of this forum will show your credibility seriously lacking. FS ECD are good platforms but they arent F-22/35 period. They are roughly on PAR with most other 4th Gen platforms except in the role of precision all weather strike where they lag behind all operational U.S. fighters.

-DA 



Poll mean nothing in technical matters.You are not my peers.

ECD are closer to F35/F22 than teens fighters since they have a magnitude superiority in stealthiness and survivability vs teens (LO, ECM, datafusion, ESM, multicaptors...)

Without F22 been introduced in USA now, our current french planned fleet of top line air superiority fighters M2000-5 and rafale F2/F3 alone (roughly 155 fighters in 2011) , would have excedeed the whole USAF dedicated air superiority power in 2010/2011 (its 4 air wing F15C fleet) since you would have only obsolete F15 C (except an AESA F15  squadron) and F16 (since F35 IOC is in 2011).



You are right. I am not a nationalist fanboy so no we are not peers. I also source what I claim and make arguements based on common sense. The only thing you ever do to back up your claims is type in bold print. You have no technical or military background and thats obvious judging by your post. I doubt you are even out of high school or early college years. Professionals dont do the things you do FS. I know too many from all over the world so don't ever try to BS me. Make all the nationalist claims you want idiot. 
 
-DA
 
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DarthAmerica    How obsolete is the F-15 platform...   8/24/2007 7:04:02 PM
...so obsolete that South Korea and Singapore selected it instead of Rafale as a next generation fighter...LMAO. F-15s and F/A-18E/F can be had today that are more capable than the planned upgrades for Rafale in 2011 FS keeps ranting about.
 
 
-DA
 
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