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Subject: F-22 VS. Eurofighter
mike14    2/15/2005 2:24:35 PM
Who would win.
 
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Herald1234    Peers?   8/24/2007 7:38:11 PM



No its not. A poll of this forum will show your credibility seriously lacking. FS ECD are good platforms but they arent F-22/35 period. They are roughly on PAR with most other 4th Gen platforms except in the role of precision all weather strike where they lag behind all operational U.S. fighters.

-DA 



Poll mean nothing in technical matters.You are not my peers.

ECD are closer to F35/F22 than teens fighters since they have a magnitude superiority in stealthiness and survivability vs teens (LO, ECM, datafusion, ESM, multicaptors...)

Without F22 been introduced in USA now, our current french planned fleet of top line air superiority fighters M2000-5 and rafale F2/F3 alone (roughly 155 fighters in 2011) , would have excedeed the whole USAF dedicated air superiority power in 2010/2011 (its 4 air wing F15C fleet) since you would have only obsolete F15 C (except an AESA F15  squadron) and F16 (since F35 IOC is in 2011).


Cough, poseur 1, over here, cough. 
Herald
 
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utopian    Obvious of course!   8/25/2007 4:16:03 AM
The Eurofighter Typhoon will win most of the dogfights because it's the most advanced fighter in the world!

It's "Supersonic Flight/Cruise" abilities and it's outstanding agility at mach 2 make the Eurofighter superior to the F-22 because within an Eurofighter you can get higher and faster for a longer period of time than any other aircraft, and that means that your missiles will reach the target before! (not mentioning all the other advantages: eg. Eurofighter is more up to date, concerning interface and so on...)

On the other hand the F-22 is rather a stealth-fighter and a bomber than a typical multirole-fighter. The F-22 has some advantages, which the Eurofighter doesn't have. You can't really compare the Eurofighter and the F-22, they are both incredible and they have different advantages, but when it comes to a dogfight, the Eurofighter will win, no doubt!

Post Scriptum: Sorry for my bad English but I think you'll understand.
 
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utopian    Obvious of course!   8/25/2007 4:16:21 AM
The Eurofighter Typhoon will win most of the dogfights because it's the most advanced fighter in the world!

It's "Supersonic Flight/Cruise" abilities and it's outstanding agility at mach 2 make the Eurofighter superior to the F-22 because within an Eurofighter you can get higher and faster for a longer period of time than any other aircraft, and that means that your missiles will reach the target before! (not mentioning all the other advantages: eg. Eurofighter is more up to date, concerning interface and so on...)

On the other hand the F-22 is rather a stealth-fighter and a bomber than a typical multirole-fighter. The F-22 has some advantages, which the Eurofighter doesn't have. You can't really compare the Eurofighter and the F-22, they are both incredible and they have different advantages, but when it comes to a dogfight, the Eurofighter will win, no doubt!

Post Scriptum: Sorry for my bad English but I think you'll understand.
 
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utopian    Right?   8/25/2007 4:21:04 AM
USAF has 9 (nine) F-22 Raptors in service and no intention to buy more, right?
 
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utopian    Right?   8/25/2007 4:21:23 AM
USAF has 9 (nine) F-22 Raptors in service and no intention to buy more, right?
 
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utopian    Right?   8/25/2007 4:31:15 AM
USAF has 9 (nine) F-22 Raptors in service and no intention to buy more, right?
 
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Herald1234       8/25/2007 4:35:31 AM

USAF has 9 (nine) F-22 Raptors in service and no intention to buy more, right?


Nope. Last I checked, we were equipping our second fighter wing and getting ready to equip a third.
And by the way, the Typhoon has a service combat ceiiling of no greater than 18000 meters where itr wallows helpless like a pig.; while the Raptor's comfortable maneuver ceiling is well in excess of  20,000 meters.
 
The Typhoon is looking UP into the Raptors's radar and missiles. That is NOT a GOOD thing if you are a red.
 
Herald    
 
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utopian       8/25/2007 4:44:49 AM
"Red" is not good, right ;-)
F-22 catches an Eurofighter on the radar before, but the Eurofighter outmaneuvers the F-22 and it's heat-seeking-missiles twice!

PS: Mozilla Firefox seems to be responsible for my double posts :-(
 
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utopian       8/25/2007 4:51:36 AM
"Red" is not good, right ;-)
F-22 catches an Eurofighter on the radar before, but the Eurofighter outmaneuvers the F-22 and it's heat-seeking-missiles twice!

PS: Mozilla Firefox seems to be responsible for my double posts :-(
 
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utopian       8/25/2007 6:47:07 AM
Eurofigher Typhoon
link Eurofighter Typhoon is simply the best multirole-fighter (military aircraft) at the moment!
This video is just some kind of a commercial spot but at second 00:36 of this video he's outmaneuvering any other aircraft - without "supercruise"...in supersonic-flight there's no chance to ever reach or target an Eurofighter!

The "Deutsche Luftwaffe" (GER), the "Royal Air Force" (UK), "L'Aeronautica Militare" (ITA) and "El Ejército del Aire" (ESP) all together can't be so wrong, right?
Of course there are the Swedish Saab JAS-39 Gripen, the US-American Lockheed Martin F-22, the French Dassault Rafale and the Chinese Chengdu J-10 which could take up a longterm, neverending fight with the EF-2000, but there's no doubt, that the Eurofighter Typhoon is the best Interceptor at the moment, maybe it's even the best warplane if the worst comes to the worst!
 
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utopian       8/25/2007 7:00:47 AM
Unfortunately there's no chance to edit my post, so I cannot change the German links into English ones or into videos *sorry*
 
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Phaid       8/25/2007 7:07:03 AM
OSF was declared obsolescent for two reasons

No.  OSF was declared obsolescent for one reason: its design called for parts that nobody manufactures any more, and since parts were unavailable off the shelf the cost to manufacture and maintain it would have been astronomical. 

There is at present no OSF-NG, there are no designs for it yet and the contract for it hasn't been awarded.  Only the first 48 F2 Rafales will have OSF, the rest will have an empty fairing until someday when new units are procured.

When JSF will enter service in 2011.2012 Rafale will have further RCS reduction, standard post F3, AESA and OSF2.  All fully funded!

None of those systems will be in production for Rafale by 2012.  AESA, OSF-NG, a working MWR for Spectra, and all the other fixes for Rafale's deficiencies will be at best included in the post-F3 configuration which is projected well after 2012.  In 2012 the F3s will be flying around with no OSF and the best they can hope for is some ground attack modes in RBE2 and a targeting pod.

There is no way Rafale would have an obsolescent avionic when JSF will enter service if we want to compete with.

Rafale already had obsolete electronics compared to the F-15 and F/A-18 that it competed against and lost to.  There is no reason to suppose it will not also have obsolete electronics compared to the F-35.

Rafale has failed every test it's been put to.  It can't out-dogfight a Harrier, it can't BVR with Su-30s or F/A-18s, nobody wants to buy it because its technology is dated and its growth potential dubious, and its "combat proven" deployment consisted of hauling two bombs at a time that it couldn't even designate for itself.
 
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Herald1234       8/25/2007 7:22:37 AM

"Red" is not good, right ;-)
F-22 catches an Eurofighter on the radar before, but the Eurofighter outmaneuvers the F-22 and it's heat-seeking-missiles twice!

PS: Mozilla Firefox seems to be responsible for my double posts :-(

Look I understand that youm like the Typhoon. I happen to think its a good aircraft, but it is not going to be able to outperform an aircraft that was designed to outclimb it, out accelerate it, be harder to detect, fly at a much greater altitude and frankly carry an A2A BVR rocket [AMRAAM] that is being updated/designed to take adavantage of those very factors to exploit.
 
You want a WVR dogfighter, then Typhoon is a very good bird.. You want to shoot down enemy aircraft with impunity? Then you build something like a supercruise jet propelled aircraft that at 20,000 meters + can maneuver on its jet engines like a rocket, and can throw no escape you missiles at you fromm almost 100 kilometers away and KILL you dead with better than 70% certainty.
 
Maneuver in dense air is nice. First see, first shoot, first kill, is absolutely VITAL.
 
Its that simple. Typhoon is completely outclassed. Wrong design choices for an air superiority fighter.
 
METEOR is a desperate A2A extended range ramjet BVR missile development to try to make up for the original Eurocluck mistake. 
 
Herald .        
 
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utopian       8/25/2007 8:47:26 AM
Well, I can't help myself, the F-22 is awesome and it looks much better and more terrific, but it seems a littlebit hard and clumsy.

As far as I can see the only advantage of the F-22 is the stealth technology up to a certain armament.  Eurofighter has better agility, better pilot-aircraft-interface, higher speed and better (/more) weapons (a2a: amraam and/or meteor and a2g: Paveway III).

Nevertheless, the English Wikipedia source may be right:
"In March 2005, United States Air Force Chief of Staff General John P. Jumper, then the only person to have flown both the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Raptor, gave a verbal comparison on the two aircraft. He said that "the Eurofighter is both agile and sophisticated, but is still difficult to compare to the F-22 Raptor." "They are different kinds of airplanes to start with," the general said. "It's like asking us to compare a NASCAR car with a Formula 1 car. They are both exciting in different ways, but they are designed for different levels of performance.""
 
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usajoe       8/25/2007 8:55:07 AM
As far as I can see the only advantage of the F-22 is the stealth technology up to a certain armament.  Eurofighter has better agility, better pilot-aircraft-interface, higher speed and better (/more) weapons (a2a: amraam and/or meteor and a2g: Paveway III).

Than you cant see very well can you, you need to put on
your glasses and come back to reality!
 
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