Je repete

 

Well anyway, the tank thread  where Blue Wings demonstrated his ignorance on THAT subject was this one:

 

 

And as I said before, I would still like to see how computer software inside a node, requires a man pushing a button, to tell it what to do.

 

Herald

 

 

 

 

Since BW isn't familiar with it, the ALR-94 is the most complex piece of electronics on the aircraft, and has proven ability to identify, prioritize, geo-locate, and then target air and ground threats well before the Raptor is detected.  Its use of track files and interferometry give it a geolocation capability that works both in air to air and air to ground -- is accurate enough in azimuth and elevation to allow the Raptor to target AMRAAMs passively.  I would post links, but why bother, that's what Google is for.

 

Anyway, having this argument with a person who claims to have "done his homework" yet hasn't heard of the ALR-94 is a waste of time.

"Anyway, having this argument with a person who claims to have "done his homework" yet hasn't heard of the ALR-94 is a waste of time."

 

Just because he didn't even know it existed doesn't mean he isn't qualified to discuss its merits.  Clearly Spectra must be much much better! 

 

 

 

 

You are all being silly ... I already said that I was born in april 1963 . I 'm 45 .

 I was expecting such useless bashing and I do not care .

 

Phaid , I tried to dig a bit into the ALR-94 mystery .  It is indeed hard to find anything on the open Net but you can still get some usefull stuff . For sure , BAE and the USAF are not saying much . I indeed read that developping an active jammer for the F-22/F-35 can be counter-productive . This is what you all said , following the general rule .

I had a long thinking and I have to say that it makes sense , but not entirely .   I 'll come back on this later in this post .

It appears that the ALR-94 ECM package is a passive suite only . Its operating frequencies are from 500 to 1,000 MHz (low band passive jamming) , it has fiber opticals interfaces (great !) , it 's using RISC and DSP processors and the system is using embedded low-observable antenna apertures rather than traditional antennas (to keep the airframe stealth) . All of this sounds good , no sh*t .

The field of "view" is 360 degree (bubble style) .

I have to say that these features already make the passive ALR-94 suite an excellent piece of kit . It can precisely jam an incoming signal through precision DF , using interleaving narrow beams , that I did not know . BAE is talking about "stealth jamming" .

When I read that , I understood better why they did not follow the "active jamming" way . Clever thinking ...

Nevertheless , allow me (and others) to disagree . In itself , the ALR-94 is top notch to keep the aircraft unseen (?) to normal radars (the low band , up to 1,000 MHz)  . By "unseen" , I mean that the aircraft cam jam the signals but it is up to the adverse software 's radar to understand that it has been jammed and provide the necessary datas for an ECCM attack , many radars can do that . Since the ALR-94 is only a passive suite , its jamming will be locked on (where the aircraft actually is) and passive EM (or worse) IR shots will be possible . There , the ALR-94 suite becomes useless , it cannot jam incoming missiles (stuck to low band) . This is scary in itself because it works for both SAM missiles and A2A missiles . The only defense left is to use the AN/APG-77 to try to jam the missile (if it has been implemented and if the missile is in the forward sector) .

 

I also found out what the accuracy of the passive ALR-94 was : 2 degrees , both in azimuth and elevation.. Not baaad for a passive system ... (SPECTRA is twice more accurate)

I also read that tha ALR-94 suite was able to "listen" to radio waves to up to 250 nm . Well , when I said that SPECTRA was able to "listen" to radio waves up to 200 nm , you called me a troll . So ?

 

What I wanna say is that the F-22 is lacking something like SPECTRA . We are now (almost) in 2009 , and the Jet  might survive longer than any other aircraft in a busy battlefield (?) but it is far to be the panacea .

Deceptive , precise and active jamming cannot be left aside . Right now , if a F-22 is unlucky enough to be fired on with a top EM missile launched from a top notch SAM (or fighter) , the jet cannot even try to jam it ! Surely , the ALR-94 can try to jam the up-link in its end discreetly but is it precise and fast enough ? Will the end link brake with passive jamming only ?

I don 't think so and don 't count on it . We have a F-22 down .

To go back on the thread , I think that a Typhoon has its chance against a F-22 even BVR . As I said earlier the F-22 will fire first but will the AMRAAM hit ? If it doesn 't , we are BVR .

 

Leroy :

""it is the most capable dogfighter in the world today""

 

I don 't think so , it 's rubbish . We all saw how the F-22 is flying . It is heavy , big and slow . All its tricks at airshows are worthless (same crap that the Su series) . A simple Himelman from the (put the fighter name) will put the "cobra" fighter in the sh*t . Its accelaration in low mach is not better than a F-16C (ooops) . Please , don 't come back to me with thrust versus ratio as I am talking about aerodynamics and drag . The F-22 is capable of supercruise but its acceleartion from 150 knots to 350 knots in low altitude is poor to say the least . The F-22 a good dogfighter ? lol !

(Sorry , phone is ringing ? Back later)

 

Cheers .

 

 

 

 

 

BW, here are some comments for you.

 

Many people suggest that LO treatments are not as effective at lower radar frequencies (like below 100MHz).  But everyone agrees that our LO technology definitely does work at high frequencies (like above 1GHz).  Air-to-air radars and radar-guided missiles all work around 10GHz, +/- 1GHz or so.  While there may be some window of vulnerability (I don't know enough about the F-22 program to know for sure), I suggest you bear in mind that you're talking about engaging with air-to-air radars that likely need to be within 10miles or less in order to track the F-22, and missiles that need to be within just a mile or two or less to lock on.  Furthermore, either now or in the near future, that window of vulnerability will really be only toward the side and rear of the aircraft as that's definitely the frequency range that the F-22's radar can/will be able to jam.  Based on everything we've seen so far, I'm thinking that worrying about fighters getting into a firing position within several miles of the F-22's side or rear just isn't a real big vulnerability after all.  The situation for SAMs is similar, as radar-guided SAMs have target tracking radars that also operate in the low GHz range, typically from at least 2GHz and up.  The idea that an F-22 could be engaged by IR SAMs or any radar-homing missiles is basically a non-starter, as there are no such missiles capable of engaging F-22s at their typical operating conditions.  You've been told about acceleration before, but you still repeat yourself here.  What part of 70,000lbs thrust, 50,000lbs weight (which you apparently are aware of), and also very low drag do you not understand regarding acceleration?  Report after report about ACM with F-15, F-16, and F-18 consistently say that about the only way to beat an F-22 in a dogfight is if the F-22 pilot is both inexperienced and also overeager, and makes a mistake.

 

 

 

Warpig , thanks for your post but I do not have time anymore to answer it right now .

I 'll do that 2moro . Good post anyway .

 

Cheers .

 

When it comes to avionics and EW in general, I just wish the pretenders would get lost. They just don't know what they are talking about 

 

That is not in reference to you Warpig. Your comments are mostly accurate in broad outline.

 

It should be obvious, by the way, that the Raptor has active jamming and spoofing already built into it.  So whatever the latest ravings by our 45 year old enfant, I ignore weith the usual contempt I hold for poseurs.

 

Herald 

"You are all being silly ... I already said that I was born in april 1963 . I 'm 45 ."

 

If that is true, it is sad indeed.  Honestly I doubt it as your behavior and level of knowledge strongly suggests you are in your teens.

 

 "Phaid , I tried to dig a bit into the ALR-94 mystery .  It is indeed hard to find anything on the open Net but you can still get some usefull stuff ."

 

I am going to go ahead and cut you off right there.  You don't have a CLUE what you are talking about.  You spout off an incredible amount of stupidity and just HOPE someone isn't around that can recognize it for what it is.  Do you think it isn't obvious you are making this crap up as you go along?

 

Yesterday you didn't even know the ALR-94 existed and today you are going to lecture us on its merits based on what you read on the internet? lol  (Refer to my post above about kids these days not understanding the difference between real research and skimming a few fan webpages.)

 

"It appears that the ALR-94 ECM package is a passive suite only ."

 

Oh really? That would be an interesting opinion if you had a clue what you were talking about...

 

"Its operating frequencies are from 500 to 1,000 MHz (low band passive jamming)"

 

Yeah, without a doubt the full and complete capabilities were released on the internet. (and again, even if they were you couldn't make sense of them.)

 

Well as this thread has done a "Lazarus" I have a few questions regarding both aircraft.

 

Where do they both stand with regards to current Air-to-Ground capabilities?

 

Are any F22 units declaring that capability, likewise any Typhoon units?  I know the RAF boys have been spending a lot of time in the US Desert South West dropping things and generally having a lot of fun. 

 

I understand that this years Green Flag was a very successfull event for the RAF where they flew in support of a whole range of missions working with a bunch of different FACS/JTACS or whatever the heck we are calling them these days!!!!!

 

Now I understand that AtoG is a very secondary mission for the F22 but Im sure as teh USAF fights to get more F22's they will be pushing the "Multirole" aspect of teh aircraft and pushing ahead with this aspect of development.