F-22 VS. Eurofighter

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Bluewings12 12/16/2008 11:17:45 PM

(Herald , I forgive you as you inspire me pity)

Cheers .

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gf0012-aust 12/17/2008 1:57:35 AM

I recently checked some work from the Swedish on the Gripen NG and it is mouth watering . Us in France are actually working on a very similar system because it really cuts the mustard ! As an exemple , when 4 Gripens are flying together , what each pilot sees on its main tactical screen is not what his radar is seeing but what the 4 Gripen 's radars are seeing , everything being presented in a unique picture and in real time . From a Pilot 's POW , it 's simply great .

That 's teamwork to its best !

You seem to be oblivious to the fact that the Swedes asked for entry into a current comms project - yes folks, they're so confident of their own comms ability they asked for inclusion into a US sponsored project. (currently 8 members in the initial draft)

If you can name the project then I'll believe that you're not trolling again.

Thats teamwork btw. 8 partners in the first tranche of development.

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Phaid 12/17/2008 1:28:06 PM

As an exemple , when 4 Gripens are flying together , what each pilot sees on its main tactical screen is not what his radar is seeing but what the 4 Gripen 's radars are seeing , everything being presented in a unique picture and in real time . From a Pilot 's POW , it 's simply great .

The F-22 does the same thing, they all have a shared tactical picture, which includes both the picture from the F-22s shared over their datalink, and the data from other platforms (E-3s, legacy fighters, etc) over Link-16.

I see you've been keeping up with xav's bashing on the F-22 thread at air-defense.net. Somehow I just knew you'd come back and troll that crap when you read it. That whole "I won't miss strategypage" thing didn't last nearly long enough.

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Bluewings12 12/17/2008 5:40:31 PM

Yep , the French pain in the a** is back for a very short while . Just to put few things straight and to allow you to put your feet back on the ground and stop dreaming , lol .

First :

""As an exemple , when 4 Gripens are flying together , what each pilot sees on its main tactical screen is not what his radar is seeing but what the 4 Gripen 's radars are seeing , everything being presented in a unique picture and in real time . From a Pilot 's POW , it 's simply great .(Me)

(Phaid)

Wrong . At the present moment , the F-22 CANNOT transmit anything to another fighter , only to another F-22 . TTNT will not be fully implemented until few years at least . The F-22 can only receive through the Link-16 . You supposed to know that even if it 's hard to admit . I know perfectly what TTNT is and it is why I asked how the program was going . TTNT will provide larger bandwith and is more suitable for a LO aircraft than Link-16 . But until everbody (all your fighter fleet) is able to use it , the F-22 is stuck to share datas with another F-22 and that 's it , at least on a grand scale .

It is why I 've been a wee bit sarcastic about the Comms on the F-22 .

Anyway I saw that nobody fell into my trap and I know now why : you didn 't know exactly what was TTNT .

Or else , you would have cursed me for saying that TTNT had a lower bandwith than the Link-16 , but nobody did .

(sarcastic smile ...)

gf :

""If you can name the project then I'll believe that you're not trolling again.""

You being Australian , I believe that you 're talking about TTNT (again) . Few people in Australia (and somewhere else also) think that the Link-16/JTIDS will be a thing of the past soon and they wander if the F-35 will be able to use the TTNT technology as it seems that is not on the roadmap yet (I might be wrong on this) . NATO has expressed concerns too .

But for now , the Swedes (Gripen NG) are perfectly happy with what they call ""The world´s most highly developed data link"" .

So far , all I 've been saying still stand while you 're all googling hard to try to make me wrong .

The fact is that you hate when someone (especialy me) put his finger on the mighty F-22 (God forbid it) . Furthermore , I did not say a single word about the Rafale , but just pointed out that the Gripen 's Comms are more advanced than the F-22 's .

A lot of people here should stop swallowing all the US propaganda and start to look around . Fortunatly for you , the US engineerers ans scientists are not fanboys and they also look around ...

Cheers .

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warpig 12/17/2008 6:12:17 PM

First :

""As an exemple , when 4
Gripens are flying together , what each pilot sees on its main tactical
screen is not what his radar is seeing but what the 4 Gripen 's radars
are seeing , everything being presented in a unique picture and in real time . From a Pilot 's POW , it 's simply great .(Me)

The F-22 does the same thing, they all have a shared tactical
picture, which includes both the picture from the F-22s shared over
their datalink, and the data from other platforms (E-3s, legacy
fighters, etc) over Link-16.

(Phaid)

Phaid is right and here's why:

Take what you wrote and substitute "F-22" each time you wrote "Gripen." Here's what you get, which is completely true today, and that's why Phaid said what he said:

"As an exemple , when 4 [F-22s] are flying together , what each pilot sees on its main tactical screen is not what his radar is seeing but what the 4 [F-22]'s radars are seeing , everything being presented in a unique picture and in real time . From a Pilot 's POW , it 's simply great .

Everyone knows that the F-22 can not currently transmit data to non-F-22s. That's why--in light of the reasons I already gave--we're in the process of deciding what other links to give it so that it can.

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Bluewings12 12/17/2008 6:16:19 PM

No Warpig , Phaid was wrong . He explicitly said E3s , legacy fighters , etc .

***************

So , since the F-22 role as a "high flying mini-awacs" is compromised because it cannot shares what it knows with a legacy fighter other than by voice radio (ouch) , how the USA are expecting to use it if push comes to shove ?

Using such a deadly fighter in a rather "mute thing" (I exagerate on purpose) is lame . Of course , the F-22 still has all its tricks up its sleeve to win a BVR contest but it still cannot share datas , provide an overall picture or even help a F-teen by providing the tracking datas for the F-teen to do a "passive" shot . All the "Eurocanards" can , Gripen best , then Rafale then Typhoon .

We all hate one v one scenarios and it is why I bring the "Net warfare" in . Here , the F-22 is lacking for now .

Cheers .

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Bluewings12 12/17/2008 6:22:08 PM

Be aware that I am not bashing but I am only talking about things who could be better on the F-22 .

I 'm not a moron and I know what the F-22 is capable of , thank you .

Cheers .

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gf0012-aust 12/17/2008 6:26:30 PM

Your quote:

gf :

""If you can name the project then I'll believe that you're not trolling again.""

But for now , the Swedes (Gripen NG) are perfectly happy with what they call ""The world´s most highly developed data link"" .

Nice bluff, but thats not what I'm talking about - so you obviously don't know.

TTNT, Link16 and JTIDS are not what I'm talking about.

The Swedes might talk about how advanced they are in their marketing to some of the less well funded airforces - but they're lined up and in this current development path with US capability as the lead.

Gripen is obviously a nice little plane - they'll have more in the air than Rafale even in 5 years time.

btw, I'm not even remotely interested in the capability of the F-22, so another idiotic non sequitor from your side of the house.

as usual, you're being stereotypical french

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Bluewings12 12/17/2008 6:43:31 PM

gf , I wasn 't bluffing . Since you seem to know more than I do , please enlight me .

I saw some references about Oz concerns on US Comms on some different sites so I talked about .

I don 't think that the Gripen will give more than the Rafale in 5 years time , honestly . In 5 years time (2014) , the Rafale will be F3+ and only God knows what Dassault and Thales will have put on . Just wait and see how the Swedish AESA radar is getting along and what its performances will be . The ECM package is better on the Rafale and will improve with time (no doubt) and it already has one of the most complete databank worldwide (which is a very long process to archive) .

The Meteor will probably be better launched from a Rafale than from a Gripen or from a Typhoon (better radar and optical tracking) .

Back to the F-22 .

Cheers .

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Beazz BW 12/17/2008 7:08:23 PM

BW,

The comment by you was the Gripens could see what the other Gripens each saw. Phaids comment was so could the F22 as well as SEE what the other a/c he mentioned saw as well. The F22 CAN recieve data from ALL the a/c Phaid mentioned via LINK16. It just cannot as of yet transmit to those OTHER a/c securely is all. But it can recieve anything they can send to any other a/c via a recieve only LINK16 at this time. Your initial comment ref the Gripens said nothing about transmitting the data.

Beazz

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