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Subject: F-22 VS. Eurofighter
mike14    2/15/2005 2:24:35 PM
Who would win.
 
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DarthAmerica       12/14/2008 2:34:53 PM

As this topic seems to have raised its head again, there is a lot more information out there, with the General consensus, that the F-22 will have what can only be described as a 'healthy' advantage over the Typhoon, however, a number of reports state that WVR that there is little between the two aircraft, with the Typhoon having a slight edge (but you have to get to WVR first!!).

 

In BVR, whilst the F-22 dominates by a large margin, some of the more interesting comments coming out are that the Typhoon can obviously detect it has been 'painted' (though in the tests I understand PIRATE was not used), and also that in BVR there seemed to be "certain angles both in azimuth and elevation, in which the raptor could be spoted" (though no ranges etc were given). 


Oh gawd here we go again...
 
-DA
 
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ArtyEngineer       12/15/2008 1:10:38 PM




As this topic seems to have raised its head again, there is a lot more information out there, with the General consensus, that the F-22 will have what can only be described as a 'healthy' advantage over the Typhoon, however, a number of reports state that WVR that there is little between the two aircraft, with the Typhoon having a slight edge (but you have to get to WVR first!!).



 



In BVR, whilst the F-22 dominates by a large margin, some of the more interesting comments coming out are that the Typhoon can obviously detect it has been 'painted' (though in the tests I understand PIRATE was not used), and also that in BVR there seemed to be "certain angles both in azimuth and elevation, in which the raptor could be spoted" (though no ranges etc were given). 






Oh gawd here we go again...

 

-DA



Oh c'mon Darth, you know you love these threads where the fanboys come out to play!!!!!
 
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DarthAmerica       12/15/2008 5:55:20 PM









As this topic seems to have raised its head again, there is a lot more information out there, with the General consensus, that the F-22 will have what can only be described as a 'healthy' advantage over the Typhoon, however, a number of reports state that WVR that there is little between the two aircraft, with the Typhoon having a slight edge (but you have to get to WVR first!!).







 







In BVR, whilst the F-22 dominates by a large margin, some of the more interesting comments coming out are that the Typhoon can obviously detect it has been 'painted' (though in the tests I understand PIRATE was not used), and also that in BVR there seemed to be "certain angles both in azimuth and elevation, in which the raptor could be spoted" (though no ranges etc were given). 














Oh gawd here we go again...



 



-DA









Oh c'mon Darth, you know you love these threads where the fanboys come out to play!!!!!

Yeah I admit I used to have quite a bit of fun in those mine is better than yours flame wars! Guilty as charged...;) But still, F-22 "Healthy" advantage? LMAO...
 
 
-DA
 
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JFKY    The Answer is Clear   12/15/2008 6:12:21 PM
The fighter that MY nation makes will beat the fighter that YOUR nation beats...you guyz are all doodie heads and losers, with a couple of poseurs thrown in for good measure.  My nation's a/c, otoh, are designed by brilliant engineers and flown by Boeklcke's and Goering's ( fine combat pilot) and our weapons NEVER miss, well hardly ever....you should be thankful that my nation's a/c never meet yours in aerial combat....
 
So there...neener-neener-neener!
 
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HERALD1357       12/16/2008 3:16:40 PM

The fighter that MY nation makes will beat the fighter that YOUR nation beats...you guyz are all doodie heads and losers, with a couple of poseurs thrown in for good measure.  My nation's a/c, otoh, are designed by brilliant engineers and flown by Boeklcke's and Goering's ( fine combat pilot) and our weapons NEVER miss, well hardly ever....you should be thankful that my nation's a/c never meet yours in aerial combat....

 

So there...neener-neener-neener!

Oh come on JFKY. You run into the occasional yoyo who'll admit upfront that French satellite launchers are excellent, that the Chally II is a fine tank, that the Leopard II is also a fine tank, that the Typhoon is an outstanding aircraft, that the Type 209, 212 and 214 are good subs, that the Russians are bgetter at thwe EW game than anybody credits them, that well........... you know. 
 
Its just that when the fanboys start running around............ 
An
is not an
 
  and you should be arguing about the 
 
if you don't want to be considered a 
 

 Herald
 
 
 
 
   

 
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JFKY    Herald    12/16/2008 3:46:55 PM
Nicely done...*LOL*
 
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Bluewings12       12/16/2008 6:34:11 PM
What are the Comms on the F-22 right now ?
How can the aircraft "talk" to another aircraft , share data , provide tracking and targeting to another fighter ?
 
I explain , as late as january this year (2008) the F-22 had no other means to communicate with other aircrafts than with its intra-flight data link or by normal radio voice . No Link-16 , nothing .
 
""The intra-flight data link on the F-22 is the aircraft's only link that transmits. The fighter has a Joint Tactical Information Display System (JTIDS) receiver, but any communication off the aircraft, other than to another F-22, is done by voice radio.""
(From aviationweek)
How is the Tactical Targeting Network Technology (TTNT) going ?
""These systems have two drawbacks, however. Each pencil beam can talk to only one aircraft at a time and needs a dedicated transmitter to do that, so it is not a network device. And the intra-flight links only talk to other aircraft of the same type.""

I 'm asking because in a highly Net Concentrated Airwarfare , communication in between different air platforms is of the utmost importance . In this regard , a so-called 5th generation fighter should provide something better than that , which is precisely the case with aircrafts like Typhoon , Rafale and especialy Gripen .
When I imagine 4 Raptors trying to talk to each other (or 2 Raptors and 2 F-teens) in a middle of a highly EW saturated airspace , I start to worry ...
So , did the USAF update the poor Comms on the F-22 ?
 
Cheers .
 
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warpig       12/16/2008 7:57:54 PM
Four (or more) F-22 can talk to each other right now using their IFDL, no problem.  Now that times have changed, other capabilities have grown, and the desire for maximum stealth is seen to not always have to take complete precedence over being able to network in two directions with other aircraft, we're in the process of putting Link16 and/or equivalent transmit capability on the jets.  Then the F-22 will be even more awesome and dominating that it already is.  Sweet!
 
These two articles seem to show some pretty decent networking potential for both the TTNT and the BACN datalinks.
 
-----
 
Battlefield Airborne ComNode Enables Real-Time Distribution Of F-22 Data To Legacy Aircraft
by Staff Writers
San Diego CA (SPX) May 14, 2008

Northrop Grumman successfully accomplished the first-ever real-time download and distribution of sensor information from an F-22 Raptor fighter to F-15 and F-16 aircraft via an airborne network and an F-22-unique datalink.
 
Northrop Grumman demonstrated this in-flight data transfer capability with its Battlefield Airborne Communications Node (BACN) during the U.S. Air Force's Joint Expeditionary Force Experiment 2008 (JEFX-08).
 
Downloading and distributing situational awareness data from the stealthy F-22's forward deployed positions leverages the Raptor's sensor capabilities as a force multiplier and as a future enabler for enhanced effects-based planning. BACN played a critical role in substantiating the operational utility and technical performance of Internet protocol-based airborne networking.
 
"BACN offers forward tactical operations with robust communications and critical applications to enhance mission operational effectiveness," said Roger Fujii, vice president and general manager of the Network Communications Division for Northrop Grumman's Mission Systems sector.
 
"We are pleased to have the opportunity to demonstrate BACN's network-centric capabilities that enhance battlespace communications and intelligence sharing. Our success at JEFX-08 validates that this advantage can be quickly fielded to our warfighters."
 
The company accomplished the historic data download and distribution over an airborne network using a combination of BACN, an F-22-unique datalink and Link-16, the U.S. military's pri
 
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HERALD1357    See what I mean?   12/16/2008 9:57:15 PM
 
Right on cue, one shows up.
 
Herald

 
 
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Bluewings12       12/16/2008 10:59:45 PM
Thanks for the update Warpig , it 's good news .
I did ask because I do not follow on a day by day basis the life of the F-22 .
 
I was indeed aware of the BACN advanced tested during JEFX-08 , but I did not look for further details . Again thanks to you :-)
 
""The company accomplished the historic data download and distribution over an airborne network using a combination of BACN, an F-22-unique datalink and Link-16, the U.S. military's primary datalink system. BACN's Intra-Flight Data Link subsystem (BIS) provided the Air Force and joint forces legacy fighters with F-22 interoperability for the first time ever.
 
BIS received and translated selected F-22 sensor data into the standard tactical data link format and distributed the data to F-15s, F-16s and ground-based operations centers at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev., and Langley Air Force Base, Va. BIS did not require modifications to either hardware or software in the F-22 aircraft, and did not compromise any of the characteristics of the F-22.""
 
This is what I wanted to hear .
When you know how old is the F-22 program , one could only wander why it has been done so late , but better now than never !
Another interesting question would be to ask the speed , rate and bandwidth of both systems when working alongside each other . Do we have anything on this ? I 'm asking because the TTNT is rather slow and cannot transmit pictures (from an optical device) or SAR (from an AESA radar) . Transmiting that kind of infos is primordial and it must be done in real time if possible . So , how is it going ?
I know that I 'm going a bit technical and what I ask might not be on open forums , but I have interest in "Net Warfare Capabilities" . I recently checked some work from the Swedish on the Gripen NG and it is mouth watering . Us in France are actually working on a very similar system because it really cuts the mustard ! As an exemple , when 4 Gripens are flying together , what each pilot sees on its main tactical screen is not what his radar is seeing but what the 4 Gripen 's radars are seeing , everything being presented in a unique picture and in real time . From a Pilot 's POW , it 's simply great .
That 's teamwork to its best !
 
Cheers .
 
 
 
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