OMG!!! Supercruise at Mach 1.7!!!

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gixxxerking RE:F22 CANNOT do Mach 3 due to physics, unless its basic design is substantially changed 2/5/2005 4:04:58 PM

I think its true classified speed is actually around Mach 2.5. Could it fly faster, yes but not likely without some modification.

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gixxxerking RM-NOD -- F-22 Range 2/5/2005 4:14:13 PM

link That link does not say anything about the Raptors combat radius, which is AT LEAST 1500 NM. It simple says what has been demonstrated to date. That 1700 mile ferry was a demonstration. Not a SPEC. Sorry shaken, not trying to pick a fight with you but if my numbers are wrong they are on the low side. link Not an official site but an indication of what the speculations are.

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french stratege RE:french stratege & Shaken --drag drag drag 2/5/2005 4:37:58 PM

"B-1B has a lower RCS than any of the new ECD" "Rafale doesnt have the thrust to overcome the drag caused by its weapons. " "F-22 and F-15 have far higher thrust to weight ratios. " "And certain radars are just imune to the technique. The APG-77 is one of them. " For your info Rafale is qualified at 16 ton thrust with M88-2-E4 and at 18 t with M88-3 for an empty weight of 9,1 tons. Even using sophisticated techniques like phase coding , any pulse doppler radar is not immune to active cancellation wich lower probability of detection: after the first pulse, other are replicated in cancellation and you need a lot of similar pulses to extract signal from clutter even with ultrapowerfull signal treatment and even range of F22 radar will be considerably reduced. Rafale RCS is MUCH MUCH inferior to B1B even with 6 mica (MORE than 10 time according to Dassault). Rafale can supercruise with mica and a central tank which can be dropped before engagement. "delta configuration they suffer drag penalties the F-22 and even the F-15 do not. " It is coupled canard unstable delta wing with variable camber.Not a delta of 1960! The drag penalty is reduced to a minimum and more over F15 and F22 use delta wing with Tail. Obviously you don't know true performance of Rafale (contrary to me which had access to confidential info, I unfortunately can not use to downsize your ego) , you lack of technical knowledge on radars, engine, areodynamic and systems. Wait for first engagement between Rafale and F22 and you will be a little disapointed for exchange ratio.

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RM-Nod RE:RM-NOD -- F-22 Range 2/5/2005 4:50:06 PM

Look closer, the site does say what the Requierment is and what the current estimate is based on past tests. The results say... Combat Radius (NM) Mission 1 (Sub+Super) - 260+100nm 310+100nm The former being the requirment and the latter being the current estimate, read the site, it's in the table at the bottom. Your link does not say anything about it's radius, you do understand the difference between combat radius and range don't you? Re: Typhoon, Rafale supercruise. All the official and unnoficial sources I have provided say that both have supercrusie capability with a air to air load; who are you to say any different? PS - "I think its true classified speed is actually around Mach 2.5" This statement makes no sense, how can you know what the actual classified speed is? It's classified.

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Hellfire RE:F22 CANNOT do Mach 3 due to physics, unless its basic design is substantially changed 2/5/2005 6:54:40 PM

Maybe it cannot do M3, but whether it DOES or not because of some limitations has nothing to do with how easily it can fly at M1.5. The primary objective of the F-22 is to fly fast in supercruise, that is up to M1.7 or so, faster than that with AB, it doesn't really matter..

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Hellfire RE:french stratege & Shaken --drag drag drag 2/5/2005 7:05:00 PM

gixxxerking, The F-15 has about the same t/w ratio as the rafale and typhoon. Check your data.. With the future versions of their engines, they will not be far from the F-22. Concerning manoeuvrability, they are EXTREMELY manoeuvrable. I have a video of the typhoon and it is VERY impressive. You underestimate them a lot. And thinking that the europeans cannot built aircraft on par with the US is ridiculous. For instance, I remember reading about an exercise with F-16MLUs and M2000-5, and the M2000s didn't seem to have much trouble.. You don't seem to like delta aircraft, but Dassault has mastered their design. The M2000 for instance is just as manoeuvrable as an F-16 or F-18 ( and is faster and has a higher climb rate but that's another subject..). The europeans know how to built great aircraft, don't worry..

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Hellfire RE:french stratege & Shaken --drag drag drag 2/5/2005 7:08:21 PM

FS, It's clear that the ECDs are not optimized for top speed. They all reach M2 at most with a high t/w ratio. The configuration of the F-22 however, is the same as that of the F-15, mig-25 and mig-31s, which are the fastest fighters in the world.

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RM-Nod RE:french stratege & Shaken --drag drag drag 2/5/2005 7:08:27 PM

You couldn't tell me where to get that video could you? All the ones I've downloaded are a bit weak and not very good quality. Cheers.

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Hellfire RE:french stratege & Shaken --drag drag drag 2/5/2005 7:18:40 PM

In fact it's just a documentary that I videotaped. Really awesome. There are some footage of the F-22 also in it. The raptor looks much bigger but is impressive too. You see it use its TV etc.. In the documentary they say that the typhoon is much more manoeuvrable at supersonic speed than current fighters. They also say that it can supercruise. They said it can turn at 9gs non stop, etc.. I don't think it would be disadvantaged against an F-22 in dogfight, especially if both are equipped with HMCS. The problem with the F-22 is that it is so big. Same for the rafale probably..

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RM-Nod RE:french stratege & Shaken --drag drag drag 2/5/2005 7:20:16 PM

Don't suppose you remember the name of the doc?

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