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Subject: GAWADAR , WHERE FUTURE IS
chupooey    6/16/2006 11:55:17 AM
It?s amazing that tomorrow?s small fishing village ?Gwadar? is fast emerging as a Deep Sea Port today. This is important to note that the Government of Pakistan, keeping in view its utmost significance in the area, has declared ?Gwadar? as a Duty Free Port and a Free Economic Zone. This has not only enhanced its commercial worth manifold but has also accelerated the pace of development to an incredible extent. In fact, Gwadar enjoys the status of a third Deep Sea Port of Pakistan which has a special significance with reference to trade links with Central Asian Countries, Persian Gulf, East Africa, United Arab Emirates and North Western India. Gwadar by virtue of its finest location, development projects, recreation programmes and Government?s special attention, will soon turn into a city which will be comparable with cities like Singapore, Hong Kong and Dubai. In view of the promising future of Gwadar, people from Pakistan and abroad who believe in safe and sound investment, are taking keen interest in Gwadar. Historical Info Located at the entrance of the Persian Gulf and about 460 kms from Karachi, Gwadar has had immense Geostrategic significance on many accounts. The continued unstable regional environment in the Persian Gulf in particular as a result of the Iran/Iraq war, the Gulf war and the emergence of the new Central Asian States has added to this importance. Considering the Geo-economic imperative of the regional changes, the ADB?s Ports Master Plan studies considered an alternate to the Persian Gulf Ports to capture the transit trade of the Central Asian Republic (CAR) as well as the trans-shipment trade of the region. Both Karachi and PQA were considered for such development but were found unattractive to major shipping lines due to the remoteness from the main shipping routes, the limitations of draft for mother ships and large bulk oil carriers and the comparative long turn around times. The ADB studies, however considered Gwadar to have the most advantageous location for such an alternative port in the region, which could handle mother ships and large oil tankers in due course. Keeping that aspect in view as well as the inherent strategic and economic benefits that Gwadar Port offered, the transport plan of the 8th Five Year Plan (1993-94) of Pakistan included the development of Gwadar Port as an essential element of its aims and objectives. Technical and financial feasibilities therefore were under taken resulting in decisions for the development of Gwadar Port by the Govt. of Pakistan. The Project started on 22 March 2002, is on fast track and will Inshaullah complete in schedule time i.e March 2005. In fact it would surprise many that with initiative and calculated risk, we have received merchant ships since Jan 2003 and have been able to off load hundreds of tones of cargo imported for the Project, thus saving precious time and money which otherwise is required for transportation of the same cargo by road from Karachi/PQA to Gwadar. Gawadar At A Glance Gawadar is the District Headquarter of Makran Division in Balochistan, the largest province of Islamic Republic of Pakistan. It is situated on the coastal line of Makran. Along the coastal line ,there are four Tehsils including Gawadar, Jiwani, Kulanch and Ormara. Jiwani is the only one on the western part of Gawadar, joining Iranian border on Pakistani side. Kulanch and Ormara, on its eastern side are connecting District Lasbela and to Karachi finally. The distance between Gawadar and Karachi in this way, is around 715 km. Geo-Political Importance Of Gawadar Dubai is the hub of business not only for Gulf but also for rest of the world including Europe, United States, Africa, China and Central Asian States, simultaneously. The gulf region is facing many political conflicts at the moment and huge disturbances in the current administrative structure are expected in the coming years. In such a scenario, a substitute of Dubai is essential to be located before the crisis hits the finances of millions. The substitute shall be a nearest point probably, to ensure continuous supply line of oil from Gulf to the outer world. Fortunately, Gawadar proves to be the nearest and infact more cost-effective substitute of Dubai, from many aspects. China is emerging as a super economic power of the world in the recent years. Despite occupying a huge area of world's land, it doesn't have any port of hot waters, which can be used the whole year. The distance of Chinese industrial approach to the Shinghai port is approximately 16000 km and the sea travel of 2-3 months is additional. This costs them a lot in the form of taxes and duties as well. As compared to this, Gawadar port is only on a distance of 2500 km from China and the port is working for the whole year because of the hot waters here. Therefore, the interest of China in the development of Gawadar port is infact in the interest of Chinese economy. The central Asian states, after the independen
 
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Herc the Merc    RE:GAWADAR , WHERE FUTURE IS   6/16/2006 11:59:26 AM
That place can emerge as the next Karachi or Dubai.
 
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eggfooyoung    RE:GAWADAR , WHERE FUTURE IS   6/18/2006 12:13:49 AM
WHAT FUTURE? THE ONLY FUTURE I SEE IS COALITION FORCES OR INDIANS BLASTING THE F**K OUT OF THAT PAKI DREAM PORT.
 
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chupooey    Lessons that time/age tells us   6/18/2006 10:19:07 AM
...WHAT FUTURE? THE ONLY FUTURE I SEE IS COALITION FORCES OR INDIANS BLASTING THE F**K OUT OF THAT PAKI DREAM PORT.. i enjoyed this childish dream from you. it does not come with a surprise. it has been and shall (God willing) remain the dream of indians to take over pakistan. since they can not argue to their god-father so now they are happy even the coalition forces do what they despite their likings could not do in all 60 long years. but one should analyse this attitude, that is how wise people learn, and there is a stress on wise. lets look at india, is not it huge ? has sea acess from all over.... and so on. then why do they want to occupy more land ? whereas they are still to provide good living to its own people. two reasons, and all childish. 1. every child wants to have new toys, it cries so that his parents buy him that toy. the time that a child takes to leave this habbit varies case to case, with some even continue to do that same even after many years, or may i say 60 years for this instance. 2. If a child does not get a better toy than his rival, he wants to destroy the toy of his rival. it does not get him what he wanted, but it pacifies his emotions. this habbit is difficult to get rid of and continues in many otherwise gentlemen but deep down wicked childs. 3. its only till 40 years that one can expect some one to modify his habbits when worked on. after which the chances are so minute that its alomost next to impssible. so the best thing is to leave that person as he is and try to protect from him. summary. india as a child has aspirations of first point, actively invest her time and money onto point 2. and the best things what others can do is to follow point 3. that is what pakistan should and is doing.
 
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raunaq    GAWADAR , Some Questions   6/21/2006 6:16:32 PM
The questions are in no particular order - some were inspired by the articles, others were older questions. 1. Gawadar is being primarily built and financed by People's Republic of China, right? Isn't Pakistani leadership concerned about compromising its relationship with United States? About relations with the oil-rich Islamic countries? 2. When the project is completed the PLAN and PLAAF will be deploying sensitive weaponry in the area. They will require maximum operational security. Operational security and a bustling "commercial seaport" dont go hand in hand. Do Pakistanis realize they have as much chances of Gawdar taking off as Peshawar did when USAF flew U-2s from there? 3. Operators deployed in Afghan-Pak border confirm that Baluchis and Pathans are as xenophobic as the stories. Quite recently a number of Chinese engineers on this project were "kidnapped", and Paki SSG had to be deployed to rescue them. What are the chances that the natives will accept completely racially different and atheist Chinese when they barely tolerate Punjabi Muslim presence? If the situation doesnt improve Chinese will want to deploy their own security teams, how will the Pakistani Constitution handle those cases? 4. The post mentioned "Free Economic Zones" - which makes perfect sense. But it also said "Duty Free Ports" - wouldn't that destroy your native industries? Especially since its Chinese we are talking about as investor #1? Also for FEZ, wouldnt it make more sense to establish it near a city with many universities? 5. It is good that the article is so optimistic about its foreign relations, because you (chupooey) certainly are not. How, for example, do you hope to link with Central Asian pipelines when you constantly depricate the Afghan government as "unstable"? Or how will you have access to the "sub-continent with 1/5 of world's population" when 85% of the said population is in India - with its own independent ports? Bottomline: Pakistan will have to pull a real smooth one to wrest control of the port from Chinese FOR Pakistan. Until then its all pipe-and-port dreams as your control over strategic decisions making slowly slips away.
 
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chupooey    RE:GAWADAR , Some Answers   6/22/2006 6:52:38 AM
1. Gawadar is being primarily built and financed by People's Republic of China, right? Isn't Pakistani leadership concerned about compromising its relationship with United States? About relations with the oil-rich Islamic countries? Yes china is one of the biggest donor for building the subject port, other available option, as reported was usa, but Govt. has justified reasons to have avoided that. Every country has right to make decision based on her past experience and foreign policy so in my opinion Pakistan should not be worried about relations going tense just because of this whereas we have many other cards which are too pleasing for US. 2. When the project is completed the PLAN and PLAAF will be deploying sensitive weaponry in the area. They will require maximum operational security. Operational security and a bustling "commercial seaport" dont go hand in hand. Do Pakistanis realize they have as much chances of Gawdar taking off as Peshawar did when USAF flew U-2s from there? As I understand there are always naval bases not far from commercial ports, said to be meant for security and safe passage of goods. Then there is American navy near to many major ports Taiwan, japan, Arabian gulf, etc..with off course aircraft carriers but it don?t stop or effect the trade. neither there is any comparison between Peshawar and gawadar nor U-2 flight had any effect on Peshawar. Both cities have different strategical importance which is unique to them. 3. Operators deployed in Afghan-Pak border confirm that Baluchis and Pathans are as xenophobic as the stories. Quite recently a number of Chinese engineers on this project were "kidnapped", and Paki SSG had to be deployed to rescue them. What are the chances that the natives will accept completely racially different and atheist Chinese when they barely tolerate Punjabi Muslim presence? If the situation doesnt improve Chinese will want to deploy their own security teams, how will the Pakistani Constitution handle those cases? Yes there is this problem in some parts of baluchistan where some tribal chiefs see this development a possible end to their rule there. They fear that educated or on job baluchis would no longer except their rule, backed by some foreign elements, they want to maintain the status quo and deprive the largest province of Pakistan from its deserved prosperity. The Govt. realizes this threat and is working on it, they have already some success and on some avenues they still need to do better. This is ongoing process and hopefully shall be completed in due course of time without any scenario of Chinese demanding any such privillage. 4. The post mentioned "Free Economic Zones" - which makes perfect sense. But it also said "Duty Free Ports" - wouldn't that destroy your native industries? Especially since its Chinese we are talking about as investor #1? Also for FEZ, wouldnt it make more sense to establish it near a city with many universities? First of all one should not fancy of importing foreign assembled cars through this duty free port. There are always items of list. The idea to me is perfectly okey. Its an incentive for importers to divert to gwadar so that some activity starts. Also it would help those who are planning to import machinery for their planned investment in gawadar. As for FEZ near universities, there are already some with more being planned but the scale of those FEZ and the planned FEZ in gawadar is of 1:10 atleast. 5. It is good that the article is so optimistic about its foreign relations, because you (chupooey) certainly are not. How, for example, do you hope to link with Central Asian pipelines when you constantly depricate the Afghan government as "unstable"? Or how will you have access to the "sub-continent with 1/5 of world's population" when 85% of the said population is in India - with its own independent ports? No, I am optimistic. Reasons, increased trade does not only bring fortune for Pakistan. Any pipe line coming to Pakistan egal from iran or central asia would automatically attract energy starved India. As I know, the quest for energy has made India and china to contest jointly for off share energy stakes uptakings. So it would be in their self interest for 85 % of 1/5. the same is true for china which also requires to have ample energy supplies to keep up the growth rate that she has been able to achieve. Just for reference, Chinese premier termed Pakistan, as an energy corridor during the recent shanghai meeting in which India was absent because of worth thinking reasons. Bottomline: Pakistan will have to pull a real smooth one to wrest control of the port from Chinese FOR Pakistan. Until then its all pipe-and-port dreams as your control over strategic decisions making slowly slips away. I agree to the first part, Pakistan will have to be vigilant and shall have to implement what she has planned but I don?t have any fear of port going in the hands of ch
 
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eggfooyoung    RE:GAWADAR , Some Answers   6/22/2006 11:13:15 PM
is there nothing else besides GWADAR (read communist alms to perennial paki beggars)that u pakis can look forward to? why dont u kiss our a$$ too;we will build u a few airports or some roads,a railway perhaps!fair enough?
 
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chupooey    RE:what are communist aims ? and your investment plans   6/25/2006 4:34:21 PM
well mr. eggfooyoung, you should better apprise us all with the communist plans and how they are detrimental of pakistan cause? also if you are finished with investment else where and still have huge money to invest some where , you should discuss that with our board of investment or search for any buisness partner rather than throwing your dirt here.
 
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raunaq    RE:GAWADAR , Some More Questions   6/28/2006 8:47:21 AM
With regard to: #1. What about the Arab and other Islamic countries? What do they feel about Pakistan-China axis? IIRC they have rendered some not inconsiderable support for the Islamic Republic since its foundation {when they could}. I am sure Malays {the single healthy Islamic country} arent too happy about it. What about military back-doors like UAE, Jordan and Turkey? Havent they been filtering in NATO material during embargo {presumably to first fight the Soviets, and then in 90's India}? #2. The fact that USN and other navies have to share a port with commercial traffic is a sad, cost-cutting or otherwise unavoidable reasons. Given a choice navies would much rather hinder the commerce around them. To put things in perspective look at Gawdar as a Chinese version of US/UK Diego Gracia, or French Djbouti. My reference to Peshawar in 1950s was in reference to USAF choice criterion: Isolation. Presumably PLAN has the same criterion in picking Gawdar instead of a place in more commercially viable Sindh {with higher population density and literacy to make commerce possible}. #3. Hoping that it wouldn't come down to Chinese demanding their own security force is well and fine, but what can you do prepare against it? OTOH I suspect the Chinese will do it anyway, knowing second-hand the benefits of having a "International Community" back in 1930s.
 
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chupooey    RE:GAWADAR ,Some answers II   7/3/2006 5:24:04 AM
1. You remember absolutely correct. many middle east countries especially saudi arabia have been time tested friends of Pakistan and have helped Pakistan in every situation when many other left us. but why would they be against Pak-china alliance ?? A prosperous and strong pakistan is in the interest of muslim arab countries. As i know there is no conflict between china and arab muslims countries. As for Malaysia. They may have their apprehensions to convince you but certainly not to me.Also 100% parity is no where to be seen. 2. What similarities do you feel between Diego gracia ( a completely surrounded island with a population of only 4500 peoples used as base for american forces since 1970s ) , Djbouti ( A state with population of 793,000 people (160 th in world) and total GDP of $619 millon ( 205 th in world) and Pakistan ( with 160 million population , 6th in world and with $393.4 billion GDP (26th in world). Are they comparable in any sense.????? Secondly i think Peshawar was was used as a base because it was close to afghanistan and russia and having flights from peshawar has not alienated peshawar in any sense. Americans would be too naive to plan to have peshawar as what you belive chineese are thinking about gawadar. Simiarly chineese would have been stupid to think of setting up a port in sindh where already karachi and port qasim exist with their intentions to grow their size in near future. 3. As i understand we are talking about civilians protection as having a security force for army protection or naval base protection does not make any sense. then do you believe the only foreigners there would be chineese??? Peace in that region is one of the basic condition if that port is to flourish. and it is with the same intention the Govt. is playind carrot and stick politics in Baluchistan. Already one can see opponent tribe of bugti settling in dera bugti region, even if Govt. decides to allow him to come back to his place, he would not be the only power in that region. so things are moving in postive direction.
 
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TopGun       9/30/2006 9:04:47 PM
for a country which has grown so much from practically nil at independance to what it is now using only one port(if im not mistaken!) of Karachi is impressive indeed though I feel that Pakistan is a chronic underacheaver and that it is capable of having a much better economic profile then it currently enjoys.  THe construction of a second port will definately help this poor country better handle cargo and increase its standing in the shipping fleets.  Plus the location will help neighbooring Afghanistan and help link Pakistan with Central Asia allowing those landlocked countries a chance to export their goods from an affordable route to nations throught the world.  WHen will this port be completed and are there plans to make any more ports in Pakistan or is 2 enough?
 
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